Sunday, July 10, 2011

So i don't exist. Now what? I never did!

Hello Elena,

Listening to Bon Jovi-music. Let’s get started. I’m not an native English writer or speaker just like you but I'm sure we are gonna understand each other. But where to start?

As for the fear, I realized that fear only exists if one thinks that there is a self who has to pock somewhere in the depth of the mind and find words, sentences; then be ready to receive either praise or disapproval. It is fear of failure, based on the assumption of the existence of the self, and that there is a me. Me is vulnerable. Me make sure everything is in a zone of comfort and control. Me separates - there are instantly me and not me, and what if those won't like me, won't approve me or mine? “

I copied this from your blog and the words resonates within me. This because i experienced panic attacks regarding driving on the freeway and even in my own home while I'm alone. But somehow i stumbled across Douglas Harding and from him to headless.org to no-facebook to your friend Ilona and on to you. Meanwhile i was  contemplating about this self-thing and I'm experiencing wonderful things. This last Friday i took on my fear for driving and went to wherever i had to go. I was/am happy and felt free.........

There is a thirst manifesting to Live the Truth. It is here as i write and it was always there but until now the focus was on the wrong stuff i suppose. It feels like surrender finally, but there is nothing to surrender to or from is there? So to answer your question:: Are you ready?” - again i can tell you that I'm feeling the courage to do this final step. It feels like a last step. i keep telling to my loved ones that I'm so close just an inch away to resolve this. Let it happen........

Elena: Ok, Dave,rules of the chat. I am asking you precise questions. You are giving me the most truest for you answers. So it may take time for you to find that true for you at the moment answer. Please do not rush. this is not a chat, this is really to make you look for yourself, through away everything you know and taught by parents and others, and look for yourself. Deal?

so what was the difference when you went into your car and started to drive this time? what was present? you can experiment again and find out what is real in that experience and what is not.

so go ahead and look. see what is really there. do not guess, look and answer.

Hello Elena,

First i agree with the rules so we have a deal .

The difference regarding the driving was that i now concentrated on the things that were happening. I saw the earth moving instead of the car, the trees beside the roads were vanishing into this nothingness behind me. Meanwhile i felt the diminishing of the anxiety feelings, some shortness of breath, warm flushes, tickling of the skin but not a overwhelming panic and i heard this voice saying to me that this was not so bad and that I'm doing ok. This voice was inside my head. I saw the other cars, the blue sky, birds, buildings, signs, interior of my car, my body, etc...

Present was my consciousness which handles with all the things that appear and with the feelings, thoughts and the overall experience. To me everything i experience through my senses is real so there was nothing unreal in this experience

Elena:
So now you broke down your experience on smaller parts - wind, trees, etc, and you immediately saw the difference.

Same here. Break down your experience even further. While walking or typing or choose any activity.

What is there?

thoughts - exist
feelings - exist
sensations - exist

there is thinking
feeling
walking
typing

look if all this requires a doer to do all these "happenings" or this is "what's happening" and then it gets automatically assigned to some structure "self" as a reference point

Look for what is real and what is not. Look at your immediate experience and break it down


when you drive there is no driver

just as there is no breather

breathing just happening

is it true?

Hello Elena,

With any activity i choose to look. It seems that there is a conscious decision is being made to start it. After the start all the activity surrounding the ‘main’ activity seems to happen without interference of my conscious. If I break it down as you said it’s overwhelming to recognize how much actually is going on and all this so effortlessly. Thoughts and feelings and sensations pop-up and go away. a constant flux, but it is never quiet.

so is there a doer? there is this instigator, the starter which is my couscous and which can stop it. Only this conscious can say/declare itself as self all the rest is sheer magic and a incredible piece of work. There is this control-unit who coordinates en categorizes everything into abstract main definitions. Like walking seems now to me a abstract word for something(s) quite complicated. For me it’s impossible to acknowledge that it’s me who controls all of this. I do not control the events, something is but it’s not me.

Elena:
Great observations, Dave!

if you start to look really close into the experience - you will see how much is going on, as you said. And mostly it would be thoughts. Do thoughts initiated by anybody? or they just appear/disappear by themselves? Can you stop a thought? If there will be controller "I" and a will, why would he just stop negative thought right in the middle? Or stop breathing? Or command heart to pump the blood faster?

Look deeper, tell me more. You are doing great, Dave.

Check in every experience if there is an owner of the experience.

Dave:
Hello Elena,

there are cooking a lot of things/thoughts. is there a distinction between thoughts and our perceived reality? I don’t see the distinction. Some thoughts can be stopped most of them are just there. Especially the thought I is predominantly present without asking .The thoughts are happening inside this space on top of my body but i don’t experience the boundaries. it seems they are floating around like the rings of Saturn. But when I'm doing something my thought. attention is there where this activity is. Like I'm typing now. My thoughts are on the keyboard, screen, inside, on the body, talking with my dad etc... all this simultaneously. and then pop they are gone and there are new ones just like that. So there seems to be a little control, but the most of them are random.

Dave:
 Some thoughts can be stopped
Elena:
try to stop a though:)

Dave: most of them are just there.
Elena: tell me which once you find are not just there? Aren't they just bubble up in the head on their own accord?

Dave: Especially the thought I is predominantly present without asking :).
Elena: Yes, it's a little persistent fker, excuse my language:)

Dave:The thoughts are happening inside this space on top of my body
Elena: Body - yes. you - no. there is no you. Is it true?

Dave:
but i don’t experience the boundaries. it seems they are floating around like the rings of Saturn. But when i’m doing something my thought. attention is there where this activity is. Like i’m typing now. My thoughts are on the keyboard, screen, inside, on the body, talking with my dad etc... all this simultaneously. and then pop they are gone and there are new ones just like that. So there seems to be a little control, but the most of them are random.

Elena:
Thought arises
there is electrical signal in the brain
Body moves the eyes


No "you" as a controller here. "I" is just a label that points to nothing. Is it true? Look. Really look.

I'll give you this exercise to do:
 
Take anything in front of you, anything that you know is a reality - it exist. Like computer or table or rug, cup - anything. Look at it. You see it? Notice how easy to see something that exists. Even if you try not to see, it's there, right?

Ok, then look at Batman. You see? What do you notice?
You have a thought of Batman in the head, right? But if you look plainly, not mystical-shmistical - just plainly, physically look, do you see Batman in your room? Why not? Because it's not part of the reality. It does not exist. Illusion.

Look at the self. Same plain look. You may have thought about self. You may have feeling, sensation of the body as a self. Thought, feeling and sensation are real, yes. They are part of the reality, They exist. Can you see self? Just like Batman, it's a imaginary construct, not part of the reality. Illusion.

Do this. Really do this. Look, notice how easy to see anything what is part of the reality, and how not possible to see what is not, what is just a label, an illusion.

Really do some LOOKING.

Go.

Dave: Shit realization kicks in NOW!

When looking takes place seeing somethings happen. Just that.

So i don't exist. Now what?

I never did

Elena: Yes, it's is very subtle, Dave, very subtle. It's just like a joke, right? You go all your life thinking you are this, and you are this separate entity. But if really look - so much components that yes, exist, and you is just a label. But don't underestimate the lie of this label. All our adult life is built on this assumption. Please read this:

http://completehumanity.blogspot.com/2011/07/where-freedom-comes-from-after.html

Can you find you in any shape or form in the reality? Tell me.

Dave: Hello Elena,
To be honest i am(?) a bit overwhelmed by the scope of this ‘discovery’. but the feeling is of happiness. In retrospect. Batman made me see. That is funny to me. The illusion unfolds the illusion. Nice one.

thanks for the effort, time and (yes there it was!!!) your Love. I will take your advice at heart and let the inspiration flow.

I recognize a growing distance to my experiences. Like i said there is no me connected to the experience anymore.

It makes me smile actually.













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Born in June 2011 out of inspiration to share how to end life long spiritual search, drop the observer, and return back to naturalness we are.

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