ON THE WISH TO ELIMINATE DESIRE...

de·sire

noun

1. 1.

   a strong feeling of wanting to have something or wishing for something to happen.

verb

1. 1.

   strongly wish for or want (something).

   
   

I worked with so many people to lead them to awakening, and most would start with expectations how freedom should look and feel, based on all they have read and heard from someone they believe is a trustable source on enlightenment. I worked with many Buddhists, and some had incomplete understanding of the teachings that put expectations in the mind that desire must be completely eliminated. These expectations are the MAIN BARRIER that keeps one from seeing freedom that is already present.

The freedom is not only present for some. To see for yourself expectations must be dropped. It's not that you consciously drop them as you would a sack of wood. The desire for truth, desire to SEE, desire to KNOW, should become so strong it should permeate the whole Being. In this potent space of desire and determination, with the proper guidance, habitual thoughts will stop to arise, and the pure seeing will reveal empty nature of the one who sees, and maybe at the same time or later, empty nature of the world, and an empty nature of the desire too.

Seeing the truth of being does not mean you become desireless, doubtless, selfless ghost. It makes one see everything as an apparent phenomena that does not need to be eliminated, just seeing properly. This seeing changes one fundamentally. From the contracted, limiting living ruled by thoughts to it's natural expansion and allowing. Same guy, different way of being.

And the journey does not stop there. Desire is a desire to live, to create, to share, continues as long as it continues. It changes in it's focus. If before, desire presented itself as a desire for material goods, or even a desire for "my enlightenment", now desire is to explore, create, share, to give. The wish to eliminate desire is just a misconception, a subtle desire too! Desire purifies by itself when selflessness and emptiness is realized. And when time for it to completely be gone, it will be gone. And in reality nothing will change. The story of Ramana does not change anything in Reality.

Julian: I've seen through the illusion of the self but there is still identification with thoughts and a sense of separation..

Joseph's journey is here: http://completehumanity.blogspot.com/2014/06/joseph-koudelka-this-whole-thing-is.html

Here he is beautifully guiding Julian...

enjoy...

first post -

jad437 » Fri May 30, 2014 4:20 pm

Hello!!

I was wondering if I could speak with a guide. I've seen through the illusion of the self but there is still identification with thoughts and a sense of separation. I guess you could say there have been awakenings ( absence of me), but I still have a strong sense of existing. I'm currently in college right now and in the process of trying to figure out what I need to do with 'my' life. Career path, etc. financial situation of the future and it is becoming so stressful because I see the futility in seeking pleasure and avoiding pain. I'm stuck in this rut of knowing that what I think isn't it, but also believing that there is more to it.

Any guidance would be greatly appreciated.

Best

Julian

second post -

Josephkoudelka » Fri May 30, 2014 5:42 pm

Hi Julian,

Joseph here. I can guide you.

How can I help you?

Regards,

Joseph

third post -

jad437 » Fri May 30, 2014 5:47 pm

Hiya Joseph,

I'm really confused as to what I should do. There this deep sense of being lost and feeling as if there is something that needs to be done. I feel as if I am missing something but I don't know what. There is a longing for truth, but I cannot find it anywhere.

Fourth post -

Josephkoudelka » Fri May 30, 2014 5:57 pm

Here at LU I can guide you to realize for yourself two things specifically; that there is no doer, and no self. This will untie the whole bundle of confusion and is really the best medicine.

Are you ready to do that?

Joseph

fifth post-

jad437 » Fri May 30, 2014 6:09 pm

Yessir! :)

sixth post-

Josephkoudelka » Fri May 30, 2014 6:24 pm

Ok then :) A couple of formalities are needed to get underway. First - please take a look at viewtopic.php?f=16&t=221 and acknowledge that you agree and understand.

Second - Here are a few ground rules.

You agree to post at least once a day, even if only to say, "still here!"

I am not your teacher, all I can do is point, you look, until clear seeing happens.

In general, I will ask questions, you look deeply and honestly, and respond.

Responses require simple, uncontrived honest looking. There are no wrong or right answers.

Responses are best from direct experience (felt senses and observed thoughts). Long-winded analytical and philosophical answers, and stream of consciousness answers are best avoided and may even hinder progress.

Put aside all other teachings, philosophies and such for the remainder of this investigation. Really put all your effort and attention into seeing this reality, as it is. If you have a daily and essential meditation practice, it is fine to continue that.

Please learn to use the quote function; See these instructions

Let me know if you agree to this also. 

Thank you! - Joseph

seventh post-

 jad437 » Fri May 30, 2014 8:01 pm

Sounds good to me!

eighth post -

Josephkoudelka » Fri May 30, 2014 8:10 pm

Great! In your first post you mentioned:

"I've seen through the illusion of the self but there is still identification with thoughts and a sense of separation. I guess you could say there have been awakenings ( absence of me), but I still have a strong sense of existing."

Tell me more about that, your direct experience of seeing through the illusion of self.

ninth post-

jad437 » Fri May 30, 2014 8:36 pm

Mmm..

There have been brief moments within the last couple of months where all labeling disappearing and there was simply experience happening. Nothing was separate from anything else because thoughts weren't labeling. Then thought came back and tried to understand it...it still does. It really wants to understand the absence of itself. I guess you could say "I' really want to understand the absence of myself when I'm not labeling things and believing thought.

tenth post -

Josephkoudelka » Fri May 30, 2014 8:55 pm

In your direct experience, right now, describe thinking.

eleventh post-

jad437 » Fri May 30, 2014 9:01 pm

Thoughts are appearing as I type this. Kind of an ongoing chatter with no mental cessation.

Coming out of nowhere and then disappearing. Not really knowing what the next thought will be.

Just words coming and going. Some describing this experience. There's a table, chair, lamp.

twelfth post-

Josephkoudelka » Fri May 30, 2014 9:26 pm

"Thoughts are appearing as I type this."

In your direct experience what is this "I" that types?

thirteenth post -

jad437 » Fri May 30, 2014 9:33 pm

No entity can be found in the direct experience...

There only seems to be an appearance of it in thoughts...but they are just thoughts.

fourteenth post -

Josephkoudelka » Fri May 30, 2014 9:37 pm

Exactly. Thoughts are known. Do thoughts know you?

fifteenth post - 

 jad437 » Fri May 30, 2014 9:46 pm

No :( They know nothing. No matter how hard they try. Or what they try to hold onto in this direct experience. It is all just a mental projection of what is experienced. Not an actual knowing/ understanding of anything. Just witnessing. Thought can't find an entity.. Just another thought saying it feels like "I'm" here.

sixteenth post -

Josephkoudelka » Fri May 30, 2014 9:50 pm

Look at your right hand. In direct experience, describe right hand.

seventeenth post -

jad437 » Fri May 30, 2014 10:17 pm

There is looking at a right hand but if there is no movement I cannot even sense that it is there. There is merely observing of an object there that thoughts label as hand.

eighteenth post - 

Josephkoudelka » Fri May 30, 2014 10:25 pm

in direct experience, describe "looking at right hand". (Close your eyes for a few moments once or twice too as you explore this in direct experience)

nineteenth post -

jad437 » Fri May 30, 2014 10:37 pm

There's nothing there. In the direct experience of closing my eyes the only thing that is sensed is a presence, but no sense of there being a hand.

twentieth post -

Josephkoudelka » Fri May 30, 2014 10:42 pm

In direct experience, describe closing the eyes.

twentyfirst post -

jad437 » Fri May 30, 2014 10:45 pm

lol...i can't describe it. There is just seeing...images..forms and then there isn't. Appearances and then the disappearance of those images.

twenty second post -

Josephkoudelka » Fri May 30, 2014 10:56 pm

Who knows this, in direct experience? Is the I?

twenty third post -

jad437 » Fri May 30, 2014 11:01 pm

No...Just experience...and description...there doesn't seem to be a separate thing who knows this...I don't really know..there's less and less to say.

twenty fourth post -

Josephkoudelka » Sat May 31, 2014 7:51 am

Are experience and the description of experience two different things in direct experience(DE)?

twenty fifth post -

jad437 » Sat May 31, 2014 9:05 am

No, the description of the experience arises in the experience but it's not separate from the experience..

OMG!!!its the description of the experience (self) that is believing itself to be separate from the experience!!

twenty sixth post -

Josephkoudelka » Sat May 31, 2014 9:07 am

Are you a body or a mind?

twenty seventh post -

jad437 » Sat May 31, 2014 9:19 am

I had to step out of mind for this...because I kept going back to what the mind had heard. In this DE i am that which experiences itself in the apparent form of a body and mind but I am not that.

twenty eighth post -

Josephkoudelka » Sat May 31, 2014 9:24 am

In DE, what difference is there for any perception? Body, mind, desk, chair, sky...?

twenty ninth post -

jad437 » Sat May 31, 2014 9:36 am

It's hard to put into words. There is nothing really. Things appear but there are no beliefs that the body, or the chair, or the chair are really as they are. Only empty words or sounds pointing to a thing...but the description can't truly explain what it is

thirtieth post -

Josephkoudelka » Sat May 31, 2014 9:39 am

Do you know the description, or does the description know you?

thirty first post -

jad437 » Sat May 31, 2014 9:47 am

LOL of course! The description tries to know (mind, me, self, thoughts) but it will never know 'me' or this. Or god, source whatever we call it. All there is is knowing lmao hahahaha. There is knowing, experiencing knowing everything and nothing and in this knowing appears description trying to know itself hahahahaha

thirty second post -

Josephkoudelka » Sat May 31, 2014 9:51 am

:) and is there's self that controls this?

thirty second post -

jad437 » Sat May 31, 2014 9:59 am

LOL what a funny question there's no free will because it's all just happening freely. An appearance of control but none whatsoever. Neuroscience and quantum physics even show this. Omg! It's so simple no wonder the mind overlooks it!

thirty third post -

 Josephkoudelka » Sat May 31, 2014 10:02 am

Yes! :) In DE is there neuroscience or quantum physics?

thirty fourth post -

jad437 » Sat May 31, 2014 10:25 am

No!!! There are no reference points!

thirty fifth post -

Josephkoudelka » Sat May 31, 2014 10:29 am

Are there any other candidates that could possibly contain this DE or knowing presence?

thirty sixth post -

jad437 » Sat May 31, 2014 3:50 pm

No...nothing just this DE...any speculation would be a reference to thought..

It's funny because there's an understanding that all seeking is an attempt of the mind to get out of its DE into a better moment. That moment never arrives but it "appears" to arrive through pleasure...but that comes and goes...so the mind is always trying to hold on to something...you've basically just annihilated my mind because it has nothing to hold on to. It keeps trying to look forward to something, but there's an understanding that that seeking is completely futile.

thirty seventh post -

Josephkoudelka » Sat May 31, 2014 4:12 pm

This is great! one more step! :)

"That moment never arrives but it "appears" to arrive through pleasure...but that comes and goes...so the mind is always trying to hold on to something."

Can the mind do anything in DE? Can one thought know another thought? is there any focus that drives this in DE?

"It keeps trying to look forward to something, but there's an understanding that that seeking is completely futile.

Same as above... and is any effort required for DE?

thirty eigth post -

jad437 » Sat May 31, 2014 4:28 pm

Confused about that first question. The mind can only describe nothing more...it does so automatically. Like...as if it had a function or job to just do one thing..repeating it over and over again..describing the car, chair, table...non-stop.

A thought is just describing another thought haha it's not knowing it. I'm not entirely sure what you mean by locus that drives...there seems to be an energy behind the thought ( believing in a separate self). That energy seems to disappear when the self is seen through?

No effort required for DE! It's just happening.

thirty ninth post -

Josephkoudelka » Sat May 31, 2014 4:47 pm

By locus, does DE have a location? Is there inside or outside, internal external in "It's just happening." ?

forty post -

 jad437 » Sat May 31, 2014 4:49 pm

No, there isn't even such a thing as inside/ outside in DE. I can't describe " this". It can only be experience itself to know.

forty first post -

Josephkoudelka » Sat May 31, 2014 4:51 pm

Excellent! So who knows DE?

forty second post -

jad437 » Sat May 31, 2014 4:54 pm

Nothing :) hahahahaha

forty third post -

jad437 » Sat May 31, 2014 4:56 pm

Or no one rather...could say god, or source..but even then that seems like saying there is an entity there...It's just nothingness experiencing itself through "apparent" form.

forty fourth post -

Josephkoudelka » Sat May 31, 2014 5:06 pm

hahaha! Thank you for sticking with this. LOL! ok. 

Relax into This. Thank you Julian. :)

At your leisure, please respond to the following questions:

1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?

2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from

your own experience. Describe it fully as you seeit now.

3) How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before you started this dialogue?

Please report from the past few days.

4) What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look?

5) Describe decision, intention, free will, choice and control. What makes things happen? How

does it work? What are you responsible for? Give examples from experience.

6) Anything to add?

forty fifth post -

Josephkoudelka » Sat May 31, 2014 5:16 pm

this last response snuck through while I posted the previous reply.

Or no one rather...could say god, or source..but even then that seems like saying there is an entity there...It's just nothingness experiencing itself through "apparent" form.

Is DE experiencing anything?

forty sixth post -

jad437 » Sat May 31, 2014 5:41 pm

Thanks so much! The peace has been here all along :)

1) There is the illusion of a self. A separate entity that has autonomous control over his or her own actions, but it is merely an illusion. Kind of like how optical illusions work. They appear as one thing, but are completely different from what was expected. 

2) The illusion is an apparent person described through description. Through this description space and time is created and an individual is born. It's funny to talk about, but toddlers, or children have no sense of separation or a sense of self. Same for animals. There is no function in the body that enables these forms to identify with surroundings. We are taught at a young age what is "right" or "wrong", "good" or "bad". Then we become this "apparent" person who gets things right/ wrong and become "good" or "bad" and through this an illusory identity person is constructed. It serves a function solely in communicating with others- a story, but it's all just a dream. The self cannot be seen but it is just assumed to be here which is why the search for "liberation" or "enlightenment" is impossible. It is seemingly impossible because there is no one to become liberated from the beginning. Only in the story does the separate individual believe they must free themselves, but how can an illusion get rid of itself if it doesn't really exist? :P

3) There is the assumption that things will change once liberation occurs. but things stay exactly as they are. Emotions arise just the same. Sadness, pleasure, pain. The only difference is that there is no one to take life personally. In a sense it can be said that suffering can no longer occur because the suffering is the energy of the "one" who takes things personally. It is all impersonal. Prior to this dialogue there was seeming personalization of events. Things were taken personally and everything was happening to "me". Now everything is just happening to no one. Like energy expanding and never ceasing. No one there to latch on and take things as their own. The story still exists, but it is not seen as who I am.

4) Hahaaha It seems as if there was a deepening in the seeing through of this illusion :) But the subtle Aha! moment was in the recognition that thoughts try so furiously to understand and know life itself, and even this illusory "self". The guide that was helping me asked "Do you know the description, or does the description know you?" and it was almost as if two jigsaw puzzles fit together. Recognizing that the description ( words, self, mind) attempts to understand/ know but cannot and will never, but that which knows it is experience itself ( who you truly are). The description arises in the experience not vice versa which left me with realizing that I know nothing, but "I" know.

5) Intention, free-will, control, etc is so simple! ahha. Literally. A thought pops up. " Go eat food, or close the door" and those actions are played out. There is no do-er or controller who willingly summons thoughts to appear in order for actions and decisions to be made. Thoughts arise from nothingness and actions occur or don't occur. The difference is there is no longer a do-er who believes that they are themselves are doing the actions. It's quite the joke actually. The action is already set to happen ( kind of pre-determined) then thoughts simply come in after the fact to describe what is happening only thoughts take the form of being a separate entity who has autonomous control.

Thought pops up. Action happens or does not happen. :) There is no responsibility. In order for there to be responsibility there must be an individual who has responsibility. This does not mean that everything stops and control is lost. Control was never there. There was an appearance of control. Taking care of the kids will still happen, paying the bills will still happen. Everything will still happen as before, there just will be no separate person doing these things. Just life taking care of kids, and paying bills :) 

6) That is all for me. No more questions for me <3 font="" joseph="" love.="" much="" so="" thanks="">

All the best.

fifty seventh post -

jad437 » Sat May 31, 2014 5:47 pm

Nope. Just itself haha

forty eigth post -

Josephkoudelka » Sat May 31, 2014 5:48 pm

Peace out!

Here is relating post to this one...Part 1 in a way: http://completehumanity.blogspot.com/2014/06/joseph-koudelka-this-whole-thing-is.html

Joseph Koudelka: "This whole thing is a desperate game until it is truly seen as the wonderful game that it is"

Joseph Koudelka:

"You visited me in a dream last week, you were a blue fairy, a beautiful azure blue. This was actually a couple of days before this dialogue started. But I had been to your website and watched a video and knew of you. I did not actually expect to dialogue with you. I am a lucky dog. :)"

by Josephkoudelka » May 11th, 2014, 7:30 pm


My name is Joseph Koudelka. Forty plus years of meditation and sadhana. Began trying to identify the Thinker behind thoughts at age of 6. Love being alone. Practiced Zen in Soto and Rinzai lineages. Completed several hundred koan, including Mumonkan and most of Blue Cliff Record. Moved on to study Dogen with a Zen master who is recognized as pre-eminent Dogen teacher internationally. Attended countless sesshin. Saw many times that there is no basis for a self. Discovered I AM THAT a few years ago, and had teacher visit me in a dream and tell me to investigate waking, dream, and deep sleep states within the Advaita Vedanta lineage of Sri Sankarcharya. Dropped out of society, lived homeless since 2007 to investigate the truth and find liberation. I have been free for a few years now and am really interested in finding new ways to express this. I would like to be guided through this process, and enter into it wholeheartedly, fresh.



by Elena » May 12th, 2014, 1:01am Hi, Joseph

Thanks for making it to here. What exactly you are interested for us to help you with? You said you want us to guide you through the process...what you expect from this process to get/become that you are not yet?
Thank you!
Elena



by Josephkoudelka » May 12th, 2014, 6:17 am

The end of self referential thought pattern.



by Elena » May 12th, 2014, 2:10 pm

Explain in details what it means for you. Explain in a way that anyone can understand what you mean by that, like you are talking to a neighbor...You mentioned in your entry letter you are standing here "fresh". Give it "fresh" here...



by Josephkoudelka » May 12th, 2014, 5:51 pm

These are the thoughts that are almost whispered when everything, just as it is, is accepted. These thoughts are an ongoing storyline that create a sense of a "separate me". ...and others. These particular thoughts have been recognized, over time, to be exclusive to me. Meaning that I know that no one else can cognize these thoughts. They are my own.


Sometimes they create an other, such as the thought, "I wonder if Elena will like me." In this thought, a self is implied, me. Now another thought pops up, "look behind the curtain, you(me) know there is nothing here to call your own. It is a spontaneous fractal out of the emptiness." But this very dialogue seems to reify itself as separate, and contract the space it appears in. Thus dissatisfaction creeps in.


In another way, simpler, any "I wish" or "I hope" thought that occurs privately to me. These seem to have a pressure response in the body that then reinforces that I am not just a separate mind but a body too.


Whatever "I am", all thoughts have their source in me. Even the words being read and interpreted on this page occur only within this me, "I am." So the very recognition of data occurring only to me seems to reinforce there is a me.



by Elena » May 12th, 2014, 6:01 pm

Joseph, thanks very much for your explanation. I like you regardless! Just because of your last name! :)


Sorry to bring you back to your first post, we will come back to what you wrote now too, but can you please explain to me in the same detailed way what did you mean by "Discovered I AM THAT" ?


I would like to add here some things that I always thought were essential, and it proved so too in this work. I don't need to ask you to engage with me seriously, I know you are, but I would like to ask you to refrain from reading anything pertaining no self, I Am and all that, including here or on Facebook. Its enough of all that practice you undertook and enough reading and churning thoughts in the head. We came here and want to be "fresh", I like you said that. But we can find that we are pulled to read, because its what we did before, and there is a momentum. So maybe think how you can break that momentum, for example watch it, or go exercise, walk, well you probably walk a lot anyways! Let me know if there is a strong pull to read or you can drop it easily...For the purpose of our work together being as much unconditioned as possible, I am not responding to your friend request on FB, but I will as soon as we done here.
With love.



by Josephkoudelka » May 12th, 2014, 7:46 pm

On the eighth day of a ten day Rohatsu sesshin, I clearly resolved that a "memory thought" was just another thought like any other. The memory thought was sticky for me, in that it seems to reference a past event, thereby proving the existence of time, and a me within that period of time. For awhile, I had been doing what the Buddha purportedly recommended, which was to look deeply a the five skandhas, or five senses(taste, touch, sight, sound, smell), in all it's aspects. To go to the source of each and see what is found there. It was crystal clear that at the base of each of these, there was nothing at all. Only the knowing of their respective arrival and departure. Once I was sure of this, I was left with the mind and it's internal functions. Interestingly, intellect too, creates a sense of self when compared to others. But at its source, it appears and disappears, with nothing orchestrating it. Finally, memory. And after reading Ananda Woods cogent description of memory, and examining my so called "own memory" during a deep dive into the empty space, repeatedly for eight days, I was sure it wasn't so special after all and that I was giving it more credit than it was due. I meditated for about eight more hours that day and could say only one thing was certain, that there was a presence, an awareness, that ran through it all, a background upon which the story played. It was the least thing, and I was That. I had been returning to this certainty since a sesshin in 1997, which, when it asked my teacher about it in dokusan, he replied, "that's not it. Don't let yourself be distracted by this", whereupon he rang me out of the room.

Now here I am, 12 years later(2009 different teacher), and I am certain that this is all I or anyone am. I returned to my room, I lived there at that time, and did a search on the term "I Am That", as a lark, and BAM!, google returned a book of dialogues on the very subject. Thus I discovered "I AM THAT" by Nisargadatta. For me it was confirmation that I was on the right track. It's just that I had heard so much confusing bullshit from teachers that I was confused before that moment. That is also when it became clear to me that I needed to leave the teacher I was with at that time. I had already begun sewing my okesa for priest ordination and wanted that badly, but it would not work out. Five months later I left hitch hiking west across the country.

Anyhow, I have had countless small enlightenments and quite a few big ones too. Some carried me for several years. They all came and went. They were in time.


The only intent that arises endlessly here is the desire to be clear about Reality, I'd been teaching long ago, but it felt disingenuous when there was still a doubt left. In the old days teachers would visit many other masters as part of the post enlightenment process to knock loose any remaining "nails or pegs". That is my intent now.

Fresh.

I can't rely on memory.

I know nothing.

No books, no lectures.

Fresh like a newborn fawn.




by Elena » May 12th, 2014, 9:04 pm

Joseph, I very much respect your lifelong practice, determination and focus.

Please take your time on contemplating. I will stay with you as much as needed, I will not ring the gong, since I am not a zen master and we are not in a dokusan room :)

Please describe this for me:

how you see yourself: how you look, what you do, feel, think, see, know, etc. if you are "clear about Reality"?


Imagine you are "clear about the Reality"

what that would look like?

what is on the way to that?




by Josephkoudelka » May 13th, 2014, 6:59 pm

Elena,

This. Tap. Tap. Tap. Letters appear as words and are interpreted by this presence that is aware of the words being typed. The seeing of this apparent object named "ipad". The tactile sensation of a finger on the glass. Sounds are also present. A quality I call attention seems to alight upon different aspects of this vista. This too is present Now. It occurs out of nowhere, as this present awareness brings attention to itself, there are no objects here, words stop, forms are now a single substrate, no form at all. Speechless!

This is Reality now, that again includes tap, tap, tapping out words in response to Elena.x

Joseph Koudelka



by Josephkoudelka » May 13th, 2014, 7:29 pm

I would like to add that all of this happens effortlessly until I begin to analyze it. At some point it becomes more conceptual and it seems to split into me and it. It being objects and me being the presence that the objects are in. But in reality there is no in and out here. No locus whatsoever. Without a reference point it collapses and is just happening exactly in the only way it can. This doesn't have any intention at all.

At least that is how it seems here. :)



by Elena » May 14th, 2014, 2:17 am

experience that "happens effortlessly" = "clear about Reality" ---- who is clear?


“happens effortlessly until I begin to analyze it”


- you can't analyze it. there is no you.


what's exactly happening when you say "I begin to analyze it" ?




by Josephkoudelka » May 14th, 2014, 10:52 am


Elena wrote
"who is clear?"


Haha! The mind always wants to know. self preservation. "This" is already clear.


Elena wrote:
"- you can't analyze it. there is no you"


Yes! You are correct. There is no you. lol!


Elena wrote:
what's exactly happening when you say "I begin to analyze it" ?


Just a thought, almost a sensation of attention focusing on itself and then a spacious opening of pure beingness, followed by a return of focused attention on the being-existence, almost like a stream back and forth bubbling, and then the desire to just relax into the beingness. It is very subtle until it's not.

Now there is the thought, "so what, this is just what is happening."



by Elena » May 14th, 2014, 12:27 pm


joseph said: “Now there is the thought, "so what, this is just what is happening."”


Apparently this thought is not enough for you to relax. There are other thoughts that tell how it should be and the drive to seek continues...

You can repeat "there is no you" to the end of times, the drive to find it or to get rid of it still there...

Do you do the drive?



by Josephkoudelka » May 14th, 2014, 2:18 pm


No.


by Josephkoudelka » May 14th, 2014, 7:12 pm


Since responding earlier today I am experiencing a deep fear of death accompanied by a dark sense of foreboding and depression. I am not doing it, it is like a dark cloud. Intense.


by Josephkoudelka » May 15th, 2014, 7:32 am


Intense fear gave way to an energetic sort of excitement. All these things occur but I am not touched by them.


Interestingly, during the past several months I have had 5 eye surgeries to prevent me from going blind in my left eye. Two emergency surgeries in the past week. There isn't a story about this. The mind is not preoccupied by it. At this point it seems the doctors are much more attached to my eye than I am. If my eye has sight or not is not up to me.

Whatever I am, it is not a body mind organism. Self referential thought patterns have their own apparent lifetime. Even in identification with them, this identification occurs and is known by me yet I remain untouched. Nothing needs to be done. It is abundantly clear that there is no doer here. And knowing this, there is the greatest ease.


by Josephkoudelka » May 15th, 2014, 8:23 am


Ultimately, there is no enlightenment, no liberation. All there is, is This. This has no need of freedom, freedom is its essence, it's very nature.

And minds are like clouds in an empty sky.

Love.




by Josephkoudelka » May 15th, 2014, 8:49 am


If I could edit... lol. I have no need for freedom, freedom is my very nature.




by Elena » May 15th, 2014, 8:20 pm


Oh honey, loved it! :)

Greatest ease indeed! Thank you!



by Elena » May 15th, 2014, 8:28 pm


Have some questions for you, dear...in your own time, simple and fresh...



by Josephkoudelka » May 16th, 2014, 11:42 am


1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?

No. No, a separate self is a misunderstanding.


2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience. Describe it fully as you see it now.


It is difficult to find the illusion of separateness right now. But it starts with a thought at the moment of waking from sleep. At first, all there is is Awareness, then a flood of memory such as, "where I am, who I am, why it is that I am in this particular space... what happened yesterday, what needs to be done today, are there any problems that need my attention, lol, oh no problems, what a relief, what's for breakfast?" Once this happens, the illusion of a separate self autopilots and now there is a Joseph suffering the affairs of the world. But it is not real. It is all mind stuff, a total illusion.


3) How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days.


Nothing needs to be done, nothing is hidden. It is all happening effortlessly and takes care of itself. There are no objects here. Names for forms are no more real that the Joseph illusion. This is what is... no location at all. Complete ease.

The difference is there is no doubt about it. Doubt is only a confused thought. I know doubt but am not touched. It is a marvelous apparition and it is only myself, winking at myself. Doubts are ridiculous here. :)



4) What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look?

Well, there was that stick, " - you can't analyze it. there is no you", which gave a jolt for a moment and then it was hilarious. Then you followed with, "what's exactly happening when you say "I begin to analyze it" ?", and the seriously good student kicked in and began analyzing what happens when analyzing is taking place. Ouch.


Then you responded with a particularly dire prognosis, "apparently this thought is not enough for you to relax. There are other thoughts that tell how it should be and the drive to seek continues... You can repeat "there is no you" to the end of times, the drive to find it or to get rid of it still there...", and followed with the question,"Do you do the drive?", which brought me back to the fact there is no me. So "Do you do the drive?" Pushed me over.

Overall, it was important that I dialogued with someone other than my own mind, who was completely clear with regard to their identity or non-identity, if you would. Quite a paradox, lol. :)

This whole thing is a desperate game until it is truly seen as the wonderful game that it is.


5) Describe decision, intention, free will, choice and control. What makes things happen? How does it work? What are you responsible for? Give examples from experience.


When there is hunger, eating happens. When a decision needs to be made, an answer arrives and it happens. I am not responsible for anything. Who is there to take responsibility? The ramifications for this are astounding. This is where Love, if I were to choose a word, comes in. Nobody is doing anything whatsoever. Everyone is my Self. Everyone is not everyone. There is only life happening. No need to exploit, no need to withhold, no needs. Everything is provided, and with that a tremendous sense of peace, thoroughly permeated with gratitude, saturates the atmosphere.

Someone asked, "if there is no doer, how do you cross the street?", to which I replied, "the same way you do, without any worry at all. The intelligence here takes care of itself. Why should I get in the way?"

Regarding intention, it happens, I have nothing to do with it.

I don't know how it works, I don't think that it works. No free will. Nothing.

Control? Why? It is an illusion. Total delusion.


6) Anything to add?


I am extremely grateful for this time you spent with me.


Also you visited me in a dream last week, you were a blue fairy, a beautiful azure blue. This was actually a couple of days before this dialogue started. But I had been to your website and watched a video and knew of you. I did not actually expect to dialogue with you. I am a lucky dog. :)

The other thing I want to say, is that the freedom of no self is so absolute, that I can express it as easily as drinking a cool glass of water. This does not need a special language to be correct. I can use the pronoun I. I can refer to others. They are no others than myself. I can anthropomorphize, wax poetic, speak or sing this mighty hallelujah til the end of time. Every single word is only a pointer, a sign indicating that which is beyond all words and phrases. There is no right way to express This. That would be like me looking over my own shoulder, what freedom would there be in that? I don't need the reins back, I never had them in the first place. There is no doer!

In the absolute sense, this isn't doing anything at all. It is the mind that thinks it does things.

I have no clue as to who I am. Everything I know is borrowed, it has never been mine from the very start. This life is a gift.

With love. Endlessly. With love.



by Elena » May 16th, 2014, 1:53 pm


I love you so much, Joseph... sending you warm hug: (( Joseph )) !...So fairy worked! Magic! :) hehe



by Josephkoudelka » May 16th, 2014, 2:29 pm


I love you too Elena, thank you so much! Magic :) yes!