Hello Elena,
I have been reading the thread you are are part of on the Dharma Overground site. I deeply resonate with your comments, responses and experience.
I have been reading the thread you are are part of on the Dharma Overground site. I deeply resonate with your comments, responses and experience.
I am a long time meditator in zen/tibetan/vipassana traditions. Like yourself, I have done numerous retreats over the past decades. In the process there has been a grounding and opening in my life. There have been times of sudden deep insights ie kensho lasting for weeks. There have been times for the "I" to dissolve and to "just being". But, alas, there is always returning to the old "me as the center" dance again and again , retreat after retreat.I have been reading the Dharma Overground web page threads for 8 months, largely in background. I am drawn by the many statements of achievement and breakthrough by meditators who are fairly new at. Alternately, I experience inadequacy in my many years without approaching such goals. Meanwhile, I am feeling a bit like going in circles and feeling a bit worn out in the mental dharma game. I am scheduled for a 6 week vipassana retreat in september but I am hesitant to continue the wheel of illusion ie getting it at retreat and losing it soon after.
Then your comments touch a chord. Yes, I can glimple at the truth of no "I". There is just seeing, hearing, touching without seer, hearer or toucher. But it is largely intellectual. I turn toward it and seem to get it for seconds then it fades, dissolves, morphs into reflection, analysis....I have a sense that if I could dialogue with you via email, skype, phone it would be very helpful in this process. Seems to be and edge here, as there always is, to step over.
I have been pouring over your site, ruthless and other blogs sited. There is truth to be tasted....can we chat?
with gratitude, J.
Then your comments touch a chord. Yes, I can glimple at the truth of no "I". There is just seeing, hearing, touching without seer, hearer or toucher. But it is largely intellectual. I turn toward it and seem to get it for seconds then it fades, dissolves, morphs into reflection, analysis....I have a sense that if I could dialogue with you via email, skype, phone it would be very helpful in this process. Seems to be and edge here, as there always is, to step over.
I have been pouring over your site, ruthless and other blogs sited. There is truth to be tasted....can we chat?
with gratitude, J.
------------------------------------
Hey, J., yes, let's chat.
This goes like this: you try not to read much of this staff while we look. I will ask you some questions, you will give me the truest answer you can find. We can do it on email, yes. It can take no time, some time or somewhat more longer time, it doesn't matter.
Tell me what your search is about. What you are searching, really?
------------------------------------
Hi Elena, Thanks for being open to this exchange.
I will speak from my truest( in my awareness) place without edit.
The seeking is to find a lasting place without suffering. There is a thirst for a space where there just is what is without the storylines, hopes, fears, pushes, pulls , numbings that take me away from the present . The seeking is about the desire to stay put in this moment to deeply, fully and ongoingly be with the sense of eternal now. The seeing is about seeing through memories and future goals as dreams. The seeking is about living fully in this body, this breath, this humanness. The seeking is about dissolving the belief that I/J. is the center of the universe .
The seeking is about dropping the damn seeking, cutting away and free from the seeming magnetic pull that THIS is not enought and I need to do another retreat, deepen concentration, be more present, cut away the hindrances yada yada. The seeking is about collapsing the act of seeking something other than what is. Intellectually, theres such an accumulation of stuff/beliefs/understandings--suffocating---the deepest pull is to just rest here in the ordinariness of typing this email and noticing the subtle, high pitched sound in my ears.
The seeking sometimes feels like being the best, a good boy, a dynamite dharma student ---psychodynamic shit.
As I am typing, there is noticing the felt sense of "seeking'. Notice my belly a bit tight, seems like i am leaning forward-reaching or trying to get. It seems effortful. How to relax the effort? Who efforts? Is it just the thoughts called I/me/mine? That simple.
There is confusion about the seeking now. Really, not sure what is being sought, who is seeking and what's the point anyway. Exhausting. Just want to be...
There it is from the moment...appreciate your energy and time with this, j.
--------------------------------------------
The seeking sometimes feels like being the best, a good boy, a dynamite dharma student ---psychodynamic shit."
You just described me sometime ago, thank you:)
"As I am typing, there is noticing the felt sense of "seeking'. Notice my belly a bit tight, seems like i am leaning forward-reaching or trying to get. It seems effortful. How to relax the effort? Who efforts? Is it just the thoughts called I/me/mine? That simple.
As you look and see thought the illusion, the seeking WILL drop, and the effort WILL drop. Relaxation will happen naturally. and the relaxation I am talking about is not the peace on the surface of the mind
There is confusion about the seeking now. Really, not sure what is being sought, who is seeking and what's the point anyway. Exhausting. Just want to be..."
yes, good. thats what I felt too. I felt suffocated by never ending seeking. I thought it will never stops. I thought it's a part of the life of a human being, all seek.
Seeking is unresolved energy - when it resolve itself, when consciousness see what it was hiding from itself, the seeking will be no more.
---------------------------------------------------
Hi Elena, You say " seeking is unresolved energy...when consciousness sees what it is hiding from itself it will be no more." So then how to access the "resolution"? Seems like this is where seeing"I" as just thought comes in, is that right? So is it just about the practice of seeing the I as thought every time it comes up?
Over the last couple days I have, more or less( when I remember) noted the sense of I and labeled it thinking/thought ala vipassana. There is a real lightening up that comes with this. Seems like my self referenced story lines have diminished in frequency and intensity.
Practicing looking AT the I , Looking at any sensation--again akin to vipassana noting. ( is the concept of "practice" relevant or just more getting in way. Seems like there needs to be something systematic-akin to meditation-or is it just sudden "getting it" when conditions are ripe?
What is the core stroke to sever the I as solid? Should I go on ruthless and go into the PIT?
I am sitting with your comment: about consciousness seeing what it is hiding from itself...seems like consciousness hides nothing or is there more to it. seems like thought is just content or passing appearance of mind, not real or solid anymore than we make it. Consciousness just is , right?
Seems to ask for very deep relaxation to drop seeking. What is first the relaxation or the dropping of seeking.
You may have me confused with another person. You mentioned my going away---Not going away until sept. So I am into continuing this dialogue now with you, if you are up for it. thank you, jim
--------------------------------------------------
"Hi Elena, You say " seeking is unresolved energy...when consciousness sees what it is hiding from itself it will be no more." So then how to access the "resolution"?"
this is exactly what we are doing here
This goes like this: you try not to read much of this staff while we look. I will ask you some questions, you will give me the truest answer you can find. We can do it on email, yes. It can take no time, some time or somewhat more longer time, it doesn't matter.
Tell me what your search is about. What you are searching, really?
------------------------------------
Hi Elena, Thanks for being open to this exchange.
I will speak from my truest( in my awareness) place without edit.
The seeking is to find a lasting place without suffering. There is a thirst for a space where there just is what is without the storylines, hopes, fears, pushes, pulls , numbings that take me away from the present . The seeking is about the desire to stay put in this moment to deeply, fully and ongoingly be with the sense of eternal now. The seeing is about seeing through memories and future goals as dreams. The seeking is about living fully in this body, this breath, this humanness. The seeking is about dissolving the belief that I/J. is the center of the universe .
The seeking is about dropping the damn seeking, cutting away and free from the seeming magnetic pull that THIS is not enought and I need to do another retreat, deepen concentration, be more present, cut away the hindrances yada yada. The seeking is about collapsing the act of seeking something other than what is. Intellectually, theres such an accumulation of stuff/beliefs/understandings--suffocating---the deepest pull is to just rest here in the ordinariness of typing this email and noticing the subtle, high pitched sound in my ears.
The seeking sometimes feels like being the best, a good boy, a dynamite dharma student ---psychodynamic shit.
As I am typing, there is noticing the felt sense of "seeking'. Notice my belly a bit tight, seems like i am leaning forward-reaching or trying to get. It seems effortful. How to relax the effort? Who efforts? Is it just the thoughts called I/me/mine? That simple.
There is confusion about the seeking now. Really, not sure what is being sought, who is seeking and what's the point anyway. Exhausting. Just want to be...
There it is from the moment...appreciate your energy and time with this, j.
--------------------------------------------
The seeking sometimes feels like being the best, a good boy, a dynamite dharma student ---psychodynamic shit."
You just described me sometime ago, thank you:)
"As I am typing, there is noticing the felt sense of "seeking'. Notice my belly a bit tight, seems like i am leaning forward-reaching or trying to get. It seems effortful. How to relax the effort? Who efforts? Is it just the thoughts called I/me/mine? That simple.
As you look and see thought the illusion, the seeking WILL drop, and the effort WILL drop. Relaxation will happen naturally. and the relaxation I am talking about is not the peace on the surface of the mind
There is confusion about the seeking now. Really, not sure what is being sought, who is seeking and what's the point anyway. Exhausting. Just want to be..."
yes, good. thats what I felt too. I felt suffocated by never ending seeking. I thought it will never stops. I thought it's a part of the life of a human being, all seek.
Seeking is unresolved energy - when it resolve itself, when consciousness see what it was hiding from itself, the seeking will be no more.
---------------------------------------------------
Hi Elena, You say " seeking is unresolved energy...when consciousness sees what it is hiding from itself it will be no more." So then how to access the "resolution"? Seems like this is where seeing"I" as just thought comes in, is that right? So is it just about the practice of seeing the I as thought every time it comes up?
Over the last couple days I have, more or less( when I remember) noted the sense of I and labeled it thinking/thought ala vipassana. There is a real lightening up that comes with this. Seems like my self referenced story lines have diminished in frequency and intensity.
Practicing looking AT the I , Looking at any sensation--again akin to vipassana noting. ( is the concept of "practice" relevant or just more getting in way. Seems like there needs to be something systematic-akin to meditation-or is it just sudden "getting it" when conditions are ripe?
What is the core stroke to sever the I as solid? Should I go on ruthless and go into the PIT?
I am sitting with your comment: about consciousness seeing what it is hiding from itself...seems like consciousness hides nothing or is there more to it. seems like thought is just content or passing appearance of mind, not real or solid anymore than we make it. Consciousness just is , right?
Seems to ask for very deep relaxation to drop seeking. What is first the relaxation or the dropping of seeking.
You may have me confused with another person. You mentioned my going away---Not going away until sept. So I am into continuing this dialogue now with you, if you are up for it. thank you, jim
--------------------------------------------------
"Hi Elena, You say " seeking is unresolved energy...when consciousness sees what it is hiding from itself it will be no more." So then how to access the "resolution"?"
this is exactly what we are doing here
"Seems like this is where seeing"I" as just thought comes in, is that right? So is it just about the practice of seeing the I as thought every time it comes up?"
no, once seeing is never unseeing. you step through the gate once
"Over the last couple days I have, more or less( when I remember) noted the sense of I and labeled it thinking/thought ala vipassana”
Vipassana is a good help, yes. You can break down the experience, and see what is there. But at the same time, you should turn your laser focus vipassana attention back to what is actually looking and doing it. Is there any doer?
Does thinking requires a thinker or it's just thinking?
Does feeling requires a feeler or it's just feeling happening?
Does anybody requires to treeing the tree or it's just treeing?
It rains. Require a doer to rain?
Look. Check.
"What is the core stroke to sever the I as solid? Should I go on ruthless and go into the PIT?"
Stay here, we already started. Do not flounder around. Stay put. Stay focused. Do not disperse energy of looking into double guessing. Trust in what is already happening. It is already happening. You just need to focus.
" I am sitting with your comment: about consciousness seeing what it is hiding from itself...seems like consciousness hides nothing or is there more to it. seems like thought is just content or passing appearance of mind, not real or solid anymore than we make it. Consciousness just is , right?"
consciousness just is. and what is happening now is. life is living itself.. all is. all real. the only what is not is you. you are not part of the reality. look.
"Seems to ask for very deep relaxation to drop seeking. What is first the relaxation or the dropping of seeking."
Relaxation is dropping of seeking, freeing tons of energy for just being.
--------------------------------------------
Hello Elena, No doer, no thinker, no imaginer, no planner, no rememberer , no typer, no dialoguer, no man , no woman, no age, no race, no taste, no touch, no hearer, no fearer, no lover...just coming back to this and coming back and coming back---when I am present and I am present when I recognize the non actor.
You say " do not flounder around...do not get into double guessing"...if that's the case there doesn't seem to be much to say.
So I just keep making this the main event, so to speak, in my "lifing". 24/7, no let up, just burn it up....yes? You know it doesn't grab me in a "passionate" way to do this, its quieter and softer and hardly noticeable.
So I have a question for you. I understand this is a digression from our core focus of dissolving the "sense of I as doer". You do not need to answer yes or no but your input would be appreciated. I ask you this with your background in Vipassana. I am wavering about following through with a 6 week vipassana retreat at Barre, Ma. in Sept. My original inspiration is suspect . I intended to do it to work on progressing on the Jhanic Arc of insight development. In part, I was coming from a place of impatience with my "lack of progress" ( reading the Dharma Overground web site left me wondering :" Heck, why are all these young folks , new to the practice reporting amazing realizations while J., after about 40-thats right-years of regular practice and retreats feels like he's at square one.
Anyway, I am "grooving" with this very new experiment of dropping the seeker/seeking. Hence, Why do a retreat if its just more seeking. On the other hand might the retreat be used to deepen and expand this process I am doing with your support? Any input?
Meanwhile, back to LOOKING AT i here there wherever it pops up and out...right here, j.
------------------------------------------------
"No doer, no thinker, no imaginer, no planner, no rememberer , no typer, no dialoguer, no man , no woman, no age, no race, no taste, no touch, no hearer, no fearer, no lover...just coming back to this and coming back and coming back---when I am present and I am present when I recognize the non actor."
this is a belief, otherwise there would be no striving to "progress". Progress what, self?
"So I just keep making this the main event, so to speak, in my "lifing". 24/7, no let up, just burn it up....yes? You know it doesn't grab me in a "passionate" way to do this, its quieter and softer and hardly noticeable."
Yes, you used to it, for 40 fkn years, excuse my language, but yes, thats what happens - initially there is a burning for truth, then we loose the confidence we can actually make it, especially we hear it all the time " The path is LOOOOOOONG., it's lifetimes and so on..." So we are seeking habitually, we built already the whole structure about it, we fall into this low-grade, never satisfied dharma path to do something with the self, to get rid off, to make it more deeper or whatever words we can come up. And then some young folks comes up, and we don't believe them, we hate them, we protect our 40 years of seeking. We feel it's not fair. But whatever we feel, something fresh is already there and start to bother us to look onto our seeking again.
"I am wavering about following through with a 6 week vipassana retreat at Barre, Ma. in Sept."
it's impressive amount of time
"My original inspiration is suspect"
I love you have a fresh look on it.
" I intended to do it to work on progressing on the Jhanic Arc of insight development. "
sounds very deep
"after about 40-thats right-years of regular practice and retreats feels like he's at square one."
it does feel like square one, but it's not, J.. Life is living itself in different ways. For some reason this embodiment of yours was involved in this particular movement of life - 40 years dharma-seeking. Somebody else was 40 years carrier-seeking, somebody else was 40 years seeking in a different way. Seeking is inevitable until consciousness see itself for what it is. For that moment to happen some embodiments need 40 years in vipassana, some needs 5 min of direct seeing. There is nothing about you, because there is no you.
"might the retreat be used to deepen and expand this process I am doing with your support? Any input?"
yes. Let's look. Your retreat is in September. So till then you have plenty of time. Even if you decide to go, which won't be "your", J.'s decision anyways, will be perfect unfolding of life, as just it was before, as it is now.
"Meanwhile, back to LOOKING"
back to looking, yes
"when I am present and I am present when I recognize the non actor."
you are not present,
there is no you
you do not recognize,
no you, yep
Presence is
Recognition is
where the hell you found you in it?
do not believe anything I say, check
Look deeper
----------------------------------------------
/*He almost tricked me here:)*/
When I look it is...so looking is happening more...such a free space :)...seems daring and risky and nothing special all at same time...looking at my fingers on key board. looking at thougt --same thing
----------------------------------------------
it's like a release of a burden:)
"seems daring and risky and nothing special all at same time..."
yes, it's that simple. They call it "cosmic joke":)
"looking at my fingers on key board. looking at thougt --same thing"
is there you in any shape or form in the reality?
is there an owner of the experience?
tell me
-------------------------------------------------
Got it ! Just listening to Ekhart Tolle CD speak about presence. Akin to what we are nudging toward...More and more just looking, hearing...letting the train roll on...
--------------------------------------------------
remember, this pointing is not zap you into the state.
it has to be clear realization
I need you to work, focus on one thin and one thing only
can you find you
in any shape or form in the reality?
and if yes, we need to continue to work
so tell me
-------------------------------------------------
Yes, thanks Elena...my head is doing its thing while the attention band notices. There is more time with attention as just attention. Thoughts come, attention notices, thoughts go. I continue to swing between the ease and grace of just perception and getting caught in story lines( minutes ago caught up in some stock investing obsessing ...then saw it , then released).
I do not sense being "through the gate"...I do notice the trying ( i identification) then release and just see...
Clearly greater equanimity but the stateless state is not in my felt sense except for flashes, sometime longer. But there still is coming and going.
In grocery store today watched the shoppers shopping and they seemed different somehow. There was a sense of every person doing what they had to do, sort of everyone enlightened. They were just doing. I too was just doing. Simple ordinary, easy, just what is happening no fuss.
So yes thoughts are doing their thing, but I am more detached i.e. see them as just passing stuff. Bring my attention back to the immediate, sensory flow...
How is this different from the idea of " anatta"? Do not want to do theory, just wondering.
This place is like how it is after a retreat. Spacious, immediate, balanced.
There is a background wanting of this to stick, stay, be permanent. Then judgement for this. Then letting it go and more looking AT what is...
So it is a clear realization. Then it morphs. Then back . Riding the waves.
Deep breathe, in the body, going nowhere, doing nothing...
got into letting the driving drive me today on way to shopping, fun...
------------------------------------------------
/*Slapping on the face, here it goes*/
"Yes, thanks Elena...my head is doing its thing"
yes, I see it. Besides, the head is not yours. there is no you.
"while the attention band notices. There is more time with attention as just attention"
you keep doing it - reaching for a state
" I do not sense being "through the gate"..."
No you don't
"I do notice the trying ( i identification) then release and just see..."
Not sure what you do. You are doing your own staff. You do not really follow, you think you know
"Clearly greater equanimity but the stateless state is not in my felt sense except for flashes, sometime longer. But there still is coming and going"
this has nothing to do with liberation, but you don't want to listen
"In grocery store today watched the shoppers shopping and they seemed different somehow. There was a sense of every person doing what they had to do, sort of everyone enlightened. They were just doing. I too was just doing. Simple ordinary, easy, just what is happening no fuss"
yes, truth is very ordinary, no fuss
"So yes thoughts are doing their thing, but I am more detached i.e. see them as just passing stuff""
How can you be detached or not detached
no you, seriously
"Bring my attention back to the immediate, sensory flow..."
Attention just is. Not yours.
"How is this different from the idea of " anatta"? Do not want to do theory, just wondering"
Habitual thinking - need to notice and gratify my even more "dynamite dharma student shit."
"This place is like how it is after a retreat. Spacious, immediate, balanced."
Being at the Gate is not feeling "Spacious, immediate, balanced". You didn't even came close.
"There is a background wanting of this to stick, stay, be permanent."
Retreats help if that's what you want.
"Then judgement for this. Then letting it go and more looking AT what is..."
So tell me what is? You should be able to talk and explain a you are talking and explaining to 10 y,o, girl. You are talking in the habitual "spiritual" language that messes with your looking. Looking and truth are simpler then what you do
"So it is a clear realization."
Realization of what? Answer my questions.
"Then it morphs. Then back . Riding the waves.
Deep breathe, in the body, going nowhere, doing nothing..."
are you writing poetry? Wait. I need you to work. Step to the Gate.
"got into letting the driving drive me today on way to shopping, fun..."
how that driving drove something that does not
exist?
--------------------------------------------------
/*After effect - waking up*/
Hi. Frustrated...am i just going in circles here? What am I missing? feels like semanitics, the words I , Me and Mine give away the game.
In fact I am doing my best to listen...
This is bringing up sense of inadequacy for this realm.
Let me work with this some more...and let go some more. Feeling like the bad student with the wrong answer. This place is not useful to me...need to regroup.
----------------------------------------------------
OK. There is a getting of the simple ness of just being without referencing I. Excuse my poetry and tendence to wax profound...patterns.
Realization of everything is as it is, not good or bad...just what is. The body called me is just what it is. Me is a tired self reference being worn down.
No there is not "reaching for a state" intentionally, but habits continue.
You say "step to the gate", "I need you to work"...I am with you, Elena, but experiencing anger and frustration with not be quick, sharp good enough to gey your validation. Need to let this go. And at the same time this is grist for the mill, as my reaction is merely a reflection of "I",,,
just typing, noticing the dark background , the bright computer screen, hearing the computer taps, noticing chest rise and fall...
Ok...I get it...after rereading your comments how can i be anything? virtually anything attributed to me is attributed to nobody, an illusion, so i am left with just the experience occuring here and now...there is just the river of unfolding moments to be witnessed by no one...too obvious...staying with what is in front now here, in front now here , in front now here is all ...i will take this to bed tonight... goodnight! j
No , I will not take this to bed...it will be taken to bed....j
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"In fact I am doing my best to listen..."
this endeavor is not for listening and then go and continue what you was doing before!
This is how it goes: I will ask you a question, you will go and look and answer in the absolute honesty, ok?
"This is bringing up sense of inadequacy for this realm."
Inadequacy is just a feeling arising. You can look into it and ask what it came to show you here. Invite inadequacy now and ask. And just shut up and listen what will comes up. There is no you to feel inadequacy, it's just a feeling arising to give you some information. Ask what.
"Let me work with this some more...and let go some more."
No letting go is necessary...letting go of what? Answer me of what?
"Feeling like the bad student with the wrong answer."
Just a feeling. No students here. Thoughts, feelings, just lets' look at them.
"This place is not useful to me...need to regroup."
Fear? Anger? What arisen? Ask what it brought to show you. Ask.
--------------------------------------------------------
/*At the Gate*/
"OK. There is a getting of the simpleness of just being without referencing I."
simpleness of being arises out of knowing there is no "I" Not the the other way around.
"Excuse my poetry and tendency to wax profound...patterns."
Drop it, for now, you will use it later as much as you want. Now be clear, precise and honest. Use language as you are talking to somebody who never ever heard about meditation, retreats, non duality and any other spiritual staff - 15 y.o, no 12 y.o.
"Realization of everything is as it is, not good or bad...just what is. The body called me is just what it is. Me is a tired self reference being worn down."
Good. Do you see it OR you intellectually understand it?
"No there is not "reaching for a state" intentionally, but habits continue."
Watch for it. Habit. What it is?
"You say "step to the gate", "I need you to work"...I am with you, Elena, but experiencing anger and frustration with not be quick, sharp good enough to get your validation."
Good, Good. Look at the feeling. There is no you, just feeling. Are you doing the feeling? Or feeling arises? Can you stop the feeling? Can you stop the thought in the middle?
"Need to let this go."
No, don't let it go - it's a habit, because you think to let this feeling be is not much "spiritual" or "mature". Just drop all the assumptions. I am here not judging you in any way. In fact, all this work is not linear, like Vipassana. There is no instructions not for you, not for me. It's a flow. Just trust the flow. Any feeling or thought that comes up is here to show you something. Look.
"And at the same time this is grist for the mill, as my reaction is merely a reflection of "I",,,"
Yes, you understand. Do not run. Stay with the flow.
"just typing, noticing the dark background , the bright computer screen, hearing the computer taps, noticing chest rise and fall...
Ok...I get it...after rereading your comments how can i be anything? virtually anything attributed to me is attributed to nobody, an illusion, so i am left with just the experience occurring here and now...there is just the river of unfolding moments to be witnessed by no one...too obvious...staying with what is in front now here, in front now here , in front now here is all ...i will take this to bed tonight... goodnight! j"
this was good, J.
So what is "I"?
Can you find it in any shape or form
in the reality?
----------------------------------------------
/*Breaking Free*/
Goodmorning friend, Where is the I ...hello? Seems to be lost, gone, absent, missing...When there is looking at it there is no thing, just this. It's like falling backward , just falling. Seems different, a bit weird or unusual but just for a moment then back to this computer, these fingers, that bird chirping, then a blip of memory all these come and go like river of stuff passing by. There is no pull or push at this moment.
Just here now
sip of coffee
thought of something to do later...sound of bird chirp
Is this intellectual? how to know...seems actually present...
thoughts fewer
Where is the I? where is it? what is it? just a big hole, a sense of dropping, like falling down a canyon ...then gone, then back...
will write more soon and report what unfolds...
-------------------------------------------------
And on and on...such a miniscule shift,barely noticable. Just did some sitting meditation, easy. Seems like a somewhat different landscape. Tricky to describe. More immediacy,less pulled away...a bit more vividness and directness.
Nothing is different, yet it is somehow transformed. Its more here . That keeps coming: more here, more here, even just here. With passing thoughts of this or that , past or future...less of a buy in or pull.
Familiar land yet strange...continuing to self on and off without buy in...
Our email exchange last eve touched something...felt my frustration and watched it collapse with no one to latch onto...poof,
Still so new and fresh...watching thoughts of doubt and disbelief...then back to here...yes, no boom boom fireworks more like a steady flowing streaming over and around the rocks...whoops poetic:)
---------------------------------------------------
"Familiar land yet strange...continuing to self on and off without buy in..".
Tell me more here. If you look can you find you in the reality without referencing thought, feeling, sensation?
Go ahead and tell me now. Without avoiding to write "I" or "me" write where is you in the reality?
---------------------------------------------------
Where is the i in reality. Not under the chair, not behind the curtain, not on my lap. Where is the I. Where is the I. Nice mantra. phantom in the night. shape shifter. ghost. whirlwind. can not find a damn thing to hold onto or point to. There are thoughts relating to self but a quick search with attention comes up blank. An empty bucket full of commings and goings of ideas.
I wonder if this will fade. Somehow i want to put it to the test...haha...trying won't make it appear or disappear...so i hang with this.
I is missing in action i.e. more like seen through as smoke. Ahhh the air is fresh here.
It is a quiet shift.
Nothing shifted... just seeing what is not there.
When I experienced some intense emotion/upset about some stuff several hours ago, I just was with it... there was a quick sense of uhoh i will reattatch to i. no, just impermanent emotion comes and goes like wind through a window.
Lighter, brighter and still the personality does its thing. But no i in the personality just patterns, beliefs habits doing their thing. no big deal. none of it me when there is no me
where am i, where am i, where am i ...not here or there or then or anywhere...ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
--------------------------------------------------
Self is a though. Is it true? Look again.
"An empty bucket full of comings and goings of ideas.
I wonder if this will fade. Somehow i want to put it to the test...haha...trying won't make it appear or disappear...so i hang with this."
This is again, just a habit of the mind, a thought. Do you see it? No need to hold on to something that IS. If you go to the movie, you think it's real? No, you know its a movie, illusion. You may have moments of identification, but they are just moments, overall you understand you are in a theater, and what's going on is an illusion. If you never been outside the movie theater, then you view what's going on as real. Not if you ever stepped outside and the mind noticed the difference.
no-self, if it's just a state, is different. You stepped outside the movie theater, but your mind still thinks it's a part of the movie, like a character in the movie went outside. So mind never registers that movie is actually an illusion. It still believes that character in the movie is you.
" Nothing shifted... just seeing what is not there."
Yes, it's just seeing WHAT IS NOT THERE.
"When I experienced some intense emotion/upset about some stuff several hours ago, I just was with it... there was a quick sense of uhoh i will reattatch to i. no, just impermanent emotion comes and goes like wind through a window."
Yes, just impermanent emotion. Any time you have emotion, feeling - look behind it. What is there? Exactly - nothing.
Please read here:
http://completehumanity.blogspot.com/2011/07/where-freedom-comes-from-after.html
"Lighter, brighter and still the personality does its thing."
Uniqueness of the embodiment is. self - no. Is it true?
"But no i in the personality just patterns, beliefs habits doing their thing. no big deal. none of it me when there is no me"
Yes, great.
"where am i, where am i, where am i ...not here or there or then or anywhere...ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh"
Ahhhhhh, much love. Please write more. Yes, check again, and write. Answer my questions.
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Good morning, All quiet here. Just a gap where self reference was. It's a gap, a hole, an opening. So there more attention to just sensory stuff seeing, hearing, moving etc. quite simple really.
You say self is a thought. Yes. An idea that gets reinforced by not seeing it , by just reacting. Who reacts?
Checked out your blog. Bravo for spreading the news ! Great work and great work with me , your persistance and directness helped to keep me looking.
Seems like looking is the key. Looking at self/i thought and seeing it for what it is not. Initially it was frustrating because i couldn't hold the focus. Now, fairly easy. Again, no big deal. life is much more peaceful, non-reactive.
Your movie theater analogy is good. Get to see life lifing rather than Me doing . Although this is not a 24//7 awareness. there are spots where the I solidifies, but it seems to dissolve pretty quickly. When you are not caught up in the storyline with Me as the main actor/star/hero/villan its easy to enjoy the show.
i reflect on choice...
with no i , i has no choice.
just happenings through this mind/body/social sensory glob of causes and conditions.
with much gratitude, j
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Oh, J., I am so happy for you. This is beginning, but without this beginning, you know, endless perfectioning of the self, endless purifying.
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Thank you my friend for your presence , clarity and direct pointing...endless purification indeed, just finished a 5 mile run. Moved into allowing the running to do itself, such ease and grace from non efforting effort!!
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