Hello Elena.
Where are you from? Doesn´t your name come from Russia? Anyway, Sweden here =)
But straight to the point. About to clearly see that there is no "I" I suppose by "I" you mean a center that is experiencing and witnessing things/objects/thoughts/feelings etc.
I don't know where to start, or what to say. First to say, that i´m really great full that you are giving me this support, and then second I do really hope that you wont give up on me, I´m sick and tired of this endless f*cking search. Enough ! But at the same time, A great fear for getting disappointed,and lots of doubt about that even this wont help. Another thing that I what you to be aware of, is that my English, is not so very good, that I sometimes use google translate to be sure I get things right.
But I´l try to be as honest as I can, and try to focus as best I can.
I have some question for you about the shift that happen to you, how is your experiences of reality different from before you realized that there is no "I" ?
Like to you feel at peace? like free from stress, like, at ease, did you experienced some shift of your body ?
Why do I ask this questions ? I guess I have an idea that the moment I see, that i will feel it in the body somehow, that the body will respond to it.
Anyway. I don't know if your answer to the question is even relevant. So what to do now ?
Hugs
Ch.
-------------------------------
Let's go a little slow here, ok, I just feel like this now.
You asked me about relaxation. Yes. See, when we prune the tree on the tops - for sometimes we feel good, like after retreat or when something good happens in our life, or when we purify the mind a little. But the root is there, Ch. So we can go endlessly pruning on the tops, and the suffering will be coming back anyways.
When we take out the root - the whole structure start to dissolve. So let's take the root, ok?
The root is the belief that we are separate entity, there is "I" who lives this life.
Look at the thoughts. Do you control them? Can you stop the thought in the middle? What influences thoughts?
Ponder on it and write.
Also feelings. You said you have this fear of not making it. Fear is fear, doesn't matter what the reason is. It's a feeling. Feeling in the body. Find that feeling in the body. Invite that feeling even closer. Let it be very strong. Then ask the feeling : "What is the wisdom you have for me". Then become very quite and listen. Ok? Just sit and listen.
Then go behind the fear, behind the feeling in the body, what is there, can you find anything?
Do it.
-------------------------------
Hi, Elena
Lets take take the root!
I´m looking at my thoughts and its true that they come and go, and I do not control them, I cant stop the thought in the middle. That for sure and clear.
What influences thoughts?
Thoughts are influenced by what eyes see, these objects I look at, judgments happens, labeling happens, conversations etc. Also different variety of feelings in the body influence thoughts.
The fear is a feeling of contraction in the body. I feel the contraction is flowing like an flow of energy and there is nothing behind, just the feeling expresses itself.
Feeling that flows
These words comes out of me
There is no "I" that feels that feeling, there is just the feeling, but then i´m not sure if its true, is there en "I" the feels the feeling or is there just a feeling.
I guess that´s what I need to find out.
I will go to bed with that.
Good night
-------------------------------
Ch: I´m looking at my thoughts and its true that they come and go, and I do not control them, I cant stop the thought in the middle. That for sure and clear.
Elena: all true, but thoughts are not yours. They just are. Not yours. there is no you. You is just a label.
Ch: Thoughts are influenced by what eyes see, these objects I look at, judgments happens, labeling happens, conversations etc. Also different variety of feelings in the body influence thoughts.
The fear is a feeling of contraction in the body.
Elena: Yes. Great observation.
Ch: I feel the contraction is flowing like an flow of energy and there is nothing behind, just the feeling expresses itself. Feeling that flows
Elena: Feeling is a contraction in the flow, that's great notice
Ch: These words comes out of me
Elena: these words comes out, no you.
Ch: There is no "I" that feels that feeling, there is just the feeling,
yes
but then i´m not sure if its true,
yes, you need to look deeper and more to make sure
is there en "I" the feels the feeling or is there just a feeling?
yes, find out!
I guess that´s what I need to find out.
yep.
I will go to bed with that.
Elena: When you wake up - open your eyes and catch the moment when there is no identification with label "I" yet.
If you go to pee in the middle of the night, see if the "I" is there who pees or peeing just happens?
-------------------------------
Hi Elena !
It has been a long night, and I do experiencing some more peace and an feel more at rest.
I have been looking direct, and I don´t find any real entity that is connected to the "I" But its seems that its more like figuring out or more see clearly what thoughts/words in the mind are pointing to, if they point to something real, unlike thought/word "flower" that points to something real that you can feel and sense.
It seems that the "I" "ME" "You" is just here for the purpose of communication, right ?
I´ve been trying to look at things around me, seeing my self doing my daily activity, but it doesn´t occur that clear that there is no "I", Its more obvious that the there is no "I", looking at feelings, but not looking at things around me.
But still. I feel a certain calmness, so some shift happened, Now I have to run to an meeting, Talk to you later.
Hugs, Ch.
-------------------------------
It has been a long night, and I do experiencing some more peace and an feel more at rest.
Peace and rest just are. You do not experience them. There is no you. Experience is. No you.
I have been looking direct,
You was looking? Just looking, life patterning as looking, no you.
and I don´t find any real entity that is connected to the "I"
good.
But its seems that its more like figuring out
head is not the faculty that will figure this out. Focusing and looking on reality vs not is what you want to do.
or more see clearly what thoughts/words in the mind are pointing to, if they point to something real, unlike thought/word "flower" that points to something real that you can feel and sense.
yes, right
It seems that the "I" "ME" "You" is just here for the purpose of communication, right ?
correct. But we so identified with them, we think we are that and all springs from this lie
I´ve been trying to look at things around me, seeing my self doing my daily activity, but it doesn´t occur that clear that there is no "I", Its more obvious that the there is no "I", looking at feelings, but not looking at things around me.
Feelings like a wave in consciousness, right? So any activity is like a wave in consciousness, just appears to be solid.
But still. I feel a certain calmness,
Calmness is. There is no owner of the calmness. It's a feeling.
Where are you from? Doesn´t your name come from Russia? Anyway, Sweden here =)
But straight to the point. About to clearly see that there is no "I" I suppose by "I" you mean a center that is experiencing and witnessing things/objects/thoughts/feelings etc.
I don't know where to start, or what to say. First to say, that i´m really great full that you are giving me this support, and then second I do really hope that you wont give up on me, I´m sick and tired of this endless f*cking search. Enough ! But at the same time, A great fear for getting disappointed,and lots of doubt about that even this wont help. Another thing that I what you to be aware of, is that my English, is not so very good, that I sometimes use google translate to be sure I get things right.
But I´l try to be as honest as I can, and try to focus as best I can.
I have some question for you about the shift that happen to you, how is your experiences of reality different from before you realized that there is no "I" ?
Like to you feel at peace? like free from stress, like, at ease, did you experienced some shift of your body ?
Why do I ask this questions ? I guess I have an idea that the moment I see, that i will feel it in the body somehow, that the body will respond to it.
Anyway. I don't know if your answer to the question is even relevant. So what to do now ?
Hugs
Ch.
-------------------------------
Let's go a little slow here, ok, I just feel like this now.
You asked me about relaxation. Yes. See, when we prune the tree on the tops - for sometimes we feel good, like after retreat or when something good happens in our life, or when we purify the mind a little. But the root is there, Ch. So we can go endlessly pruning on the tops, and the suffering will be coming back anyways.
When we take out the root - the whole structure start to dissolve. So let's take the root, ok?
The root is the belief that we are separate entity, there is "I" who lives this life.
Look at the thoughts. Do you control them? Can you stop the thought in the middle? What influences thoughts?
Ponder on it and write.
Also feelings. You said you have this fear of not making it. Fear is fear, doesn't matter what the reason is. It's a feeling. Feeling in the body. Find that feeling in the body. Invite that feeling even closer. Let it be very strong. Then ask the feeling : "What is the wisdom you have for me". Then become very quite and listen. Ok? Just sit and listen.
Then go behind the fear, behind the feeling in the body, what is there, can you find anything?
Do it.
-------------------------------
Hi, Elena
Lets take take the root!
I´m looking at my thoughts and its true that they come and go, and I do not control them, I cant stop the thought in the middle. That for sure and clear.
What influences thoughts?
Thoughts are influenced by what eyes see, these objects I look at, judgments happens, labeling happens, conversations etc. Also different variety of feelings in the body influence thoughts.
The fear is a feeling of contraction in the body. I feel the contraction is flowing like an flow of energy and there is nothing behind, just the feeling expresses itself.
Feeling that flows
These words comes out of me
There is no "I" that feels that feeling, there is just the feeling, but then i´m not sure if its true, is there en "I" the feels the feeling or is there just a feeling.
I guess that´s what I need to find out.
I will go to bed with that.
Good night
-------------------------------
Ch: I´m looking at my thoughts and its true that they come and go, and I do not control them, I cant stop the thought in the middle. That for sure and clear.
Elena: all true, but thoughts are not yours. They just are. Not yours. there is no you. You is just a label.
Ch: Thoughts are influenced by what eyes see, these objects I look at, judgments happens, labeling happens, conversations etc. Also different variety of feelings in the body influence thoughts.
The fear is a feeling of contraction in the body.
Elena: Yes. Great observation.
Ch: I feel the contraction is flowing like an flow of energy and there is nothing behind, just the feeling expresses itself. Feeling that flows
Elena: Feeling is a contraction in the flow, that's great notice
Ch: These words comes out of me
Elena: these words comes out, no you.
Ch: There is no "I" that feels that feeling, there is just the feeling,
yes
but then i´m not sure if its true,
yes, you need to look deeper and more to make sure
is there en "I" the feels the feeling or is there just a feeling?
yes, find out!
I guess that´s what I need to find out.
yep.
I will go to bed with that.
Elena: When you wake up - open your eyes and catch the moment when there is no identification with label "I" yet.
If you go to pee in the middle of the night, see if the "I" is there who pees or peeing just happens?
-------------------------------
Hi Elena !
It has been a long night, and I do experiencing some more peace and an feel more at rest.
I have been looking direct, and I don´t find any real entity that is connected to the "I" But its seems that its more like figuring out or more see clearly what thoughts/words in the mind are pointing to, if they point to something real, unlike thought/word "flower" that points to something real that you can feel and sense.
It seems that the "I" "ME" "You" is just here for the purpose of communication, right ?
I´ve been trying to look at things around me, seeing my self doing my daily activity, but it doesn´t occur that clear that there is no "I", Its more obvious that the there is no "I", looking at feelings, but not looking at things around me.
But still. I feel a certain calmness, so some shift happened, Now I have to run to an meeting, Talk to you later.
Hugs, Ch.
-------------------------------
It has been a long night, and I do experiencing some more peace and an feel more at rest.
Peace and rest just are. You do not experience them. There is no you. Experience is. No you.
I have been looking direct,
You was looking? Just looking, life patterning as looking, no you.
and I don´t find any real entity that is connected to the "I"
good.
But its seems that its more like figuring out
head is not the faculty that will figure this out. Focusing and looking on reality vs not is what you want to do.
or more see clearly what thoughts/words in the mind are pointing to, if they point to something real, unlike thought/word "flower" that points to something real that you can feel and sense.
yes, right
It seems that the "I" "ME" "You" is just here for the purpose of communication, right ?
correct. But we so identified with them, we think we are that and all springs from this lie
I´ve been trying to look at things around me, seeing my self doing my daily activity, but it doesn´t occur that clear that there is no "I", Its more obvious that the there is no "I", looking at feelings, but not looking at things around me.
Feelings like a wave in consciousness, right? So any activity is like a wave in consciousness, just appears to be solid.
But still. I feel a certain calmness,
Calmness is. There is no owner of the calmness. It's a feeling.
so some shift happened,
Do not look for a shift, otherwise you will be trying to figure out shift happened or not and maybe and blah blah, and we need 100% focus ON LOOKING
So write what's cooking now. How you've been looking and what did come up.
-------------------------------
Hi.
Its has been a strange day to some extend. The feelings in the body flows, There is a lot of lightness in the body. It feels like the "I" is loosing its heaviness.
I´v been very tired, and not so much sleep last night. So lots of sleep during the day.
I´v been looking for the "I" and I could find it experiencing solid feelings like tension, fear, so these feelings changed to more light feelings, But I have not looked if these feelings of lightness does have an "I" or its just feelings of lightness. That what I will be focusing on now, Is there an "I" that experiences peace, or is there just peace.
How about feelings, they just are, but they appear in consciousness. One could also say, they appear in space, they appear in the field of now, field of consciousness, words "consciousness" "NOW" "space" points to "I am"
How do you relate to this?
-------------------------------
Hi.
Its has been a strange day to some extend. The feelings in the body flows, There is a lot of lightness in the body. It feels like the "I" is loosing its heaviness. I´v been very tired, and not so much sleep last night.
good. Intensity is important.
So lots of sleep during the day.
ok
I´v been looking for the "I" and I could find it experiencing solid feelings like tension, feear, so these feelings changed to more light feelings,
so all you can find is feeling, right? Heavy, light, whatever they are - feelings.
But I havn´t looked if these feelings of lightness does have an "I" or its just feelings of lightes.
look if there is an owner or the feelings, or feelings just flow like thoughts arise and pass
That what I will be focusing on now,
good. keep the focus. do not engage in reading
Is there an "I" that experiences peace, or is there just peace.
yes, look right into this. Great question.
How about feelings, they just are, but they appear in consciousness. One could also say, they appear in space,
they appear in the field of now, field of consciousness, words "consciousness" "NOW" "space" points to "I am"
Why is that it points to I am?? Consciousness, Now is. Just Existence. "I" is imaginary label. What they have to do with each other, other then now you are trying to find any use for the "I"?? If not thoughts and feelings, let's make "I" consciousness! Cool. Re-look this and write more.
How do you relate to this?
I don't relate to this. This is the last frontier of the self to lock you in identification. Ok, fine, I am not my body. I am not feelings and thoughts. Then I...then I...Oh, I am this consciousness! WOW. Great! Now I am this big, expended huge, omnipresent "I"!
It's just simple - there is no 'I" in the reality. NONE. ALL exist. All real. Body, feelings, thoughts, experiences, whatever - yes, they are all real. The only what's not real here is "I". All that has nothing to do with "I". It's only thought installed in the head from childhood that all that has to be grouped together and named "I"
Is there you who lives this life or life just lives itself and you just a thought trying to put all in a structure? Check this.
-------------------------------
Ch. on Facebook: I am out!...
-------------------------------
Ch., friend, you either work or go bliss out. But the question will be only when you come back after that state subside. I am not keeping you unless you stop reading and get back to work. Same on ruthless - they will not tolerate you floundering around Facebook when you need to look. Only because we all know how it all end. Always similar. So we need to make an agreement here if we already didn't. Usually I do with people bc it is usual "self" escape passage right into bliss state. So back to the gate or convince me you already liberated. Convince me.
-------------------------------
Hi Elena.
Is this some attempt to create an reaction here to make things intense?
Why not giving this process its own flow,? why rush and hurry ?
What bliss state do you talk about ? You know, I don't need your approval regarding my liberation or not. Its not important. How can I ever convince you ? There is no "I" to liberate , is that what you what to hear ?
--------------------------
Is this some attempt to create an reaction here to make things intense?
so what feelings are there? Are they yours?
Why not giving this process its own flow,? why rush and hurry ?
Rush and hurry? This is 2 minute realization if you just look
What bliss state do you talk about ?
Look my previous email
You know, I dont need your approval regarding my liberation or not.
of cause not. You need to be honest only with yourself. Are you satisfied with feeling of relaxation now? Fine with me.
Its not important.
nope
How can I ever convince you ?
you only convince me if you cross the gate, otherwise, you right, never
There is no "I" to liberate ,
Correct. No "I" to liberate. Tell me more about it.
is that what you what to hear ?
I want to hear more, yes
-------------------------------
Ch: Alright. It feels like this, You are asking me to tell you about the "I", Pointless, there is nothing to tell,
Its even now seems pointless to even look for it.
All thoughts are pointers right? Thought body points to reality, though "I" to nothing substantial. What about thought "NOW" where does it points to? does now has any reality to you? Same with thought "consciousness" where does it points to? does now has any reality to you?
Old patterns and reactions still occurs, but not in the same intensity, When a reaction occur, the recognition is there, that there is no "I" that react, and its seen for what it is, an old pattern. Its dissolving. And its not getting stuck as before. Process of dissolving continues....
-------------------------------
Ch: Hi.
I still feel there is a center, that feels solid.
Ch., friend, you either work or go bliss out. But the question will be only when you come back after that state subside. I am not keeping you unless you stop reading and get back to work. Same on ruthless - they will not tolerate you floundering around Facebook when you need to look. Only because we all know how it all end. Always similar. So we need to make an agreement here if we already didn't. Usually I do with people bc it is usual "self" escape passage right into bliss state. So back to the gate or convince me you already liberated. Convince me.
-------------------------------
Hi Elena.
Is this some attempt to create an reaction here to make things intense?
Why not giving this process its own flow,? why rush and hurry ?
What bliss state do you talk about ? You know, I don't need your approval regarding my liberation or not. Its not important. How can I ever convince you ? There is no "I" to liberate , is that what you what to hear ?
--------------------------
Is this some attempt to create an reaction here to make things intense?
so what feelings are there? Are they yours?
Why not giving this process its own flow,? why rush and hurry ?
Rush and hurry? This is 2 minute realization if you just look
What bliss state do you talk about ?
Look my previous email
You know, I dont need your approval regarding my liberation or not.
of cause not. You need to be honest only with yourself. Are you satisfied with feeling of relaxation now? Fine with me.
Its not important.
nope
How can I ever convince you ?
you only convince me if you cross the gate, otherwise, you right, never
There is no "I" to liberate ,
Correct. No "I" to liberate. Tell me more about it.
is that what you what to hear ?
I want to hear more, yes
-------------------------------
Ch: Alright. It feels like this, You are asking me to tell you about the "I", Pointless, there is nothing to tell,
Its even now seems pointless to even look for it.
All thoughts are pointers right? Thought body points to reality, though "I" to nothing substantial. What about thought "NOW" where does it points to? does now has any reality to you? Same with thought "consciousness" where does it points to? does now has any reality to you?
Old patterns and reactions still occurs, but not in the same intensity, When a reaction occur, the recognition is there, that there is no "I" that react, and its seen for what it is, an old pattern. Its dissolving. And its not getting stuck as before. Process of dissolving continues....
-------------------------------
Ch: Hi.
I still feel there is a center, that feels solid.
Elena: You feel? Explain.
When I look where my eye see around in the reality, object shape and forms are perceived, but a feeling of I here and objects there.
Elena: Is there is "I" here?
But no "I" as any reality. No shape or form.
Elena:Good
-------------------------------
Ch:There is a sense of "I" but just as a center, as an feeling that is solid, that perceives, like a thin wall between me and reality, Could be described, as I here and reality there. Like there is an "I" whom perceives reality.
Elena: There is no "I' that perceives reality. Seriously. "I" is just a label we use from childhood. This is not mystical feeling, this is just knowing. Do you exist? Tell me.
But then again. I just "look" and I see - no "I" - just solid feeling expresses it self.
Elena: "I" is a thought that attaches itself to every experience. "I" is not a feeling. There is no you. Just Life lifing. No you.
What would you say?
-------------------------------
Ch: I say that resistance arises, and tension arises, I do feel almost apathetic and dejected about all this.
Of course I do know you answer to this already.
Here is no "I" that resist, its just resistance, But then again if there is resistance there seem to be an "I" that resist right ?
Some wave of sadness do also arises. Heavy feelings , all mixture
Tel me, does old patterns arise in in your awareness as well ?
-------------------------------
Elena:
-------------------------------
Ch:There is a sense of "I" but just as a center, as an feeling that is solid, that perceives, like a thin wall between me and reality, Could be described, as I here and reality there. Like there is an "I" whom perceives reality.
Elena: There is no "I' that perceives reality. Seriously. "I" is just a label we use from childhood. This is not mystical feeling, this is just knowing. Do you exist? Tell me.
But then again. I just "look" and I see - no "I" - just solid feeling expresses it self.
Elena: "I" is a thought that attaches itself to every experience. "I" is not a feeling. There is no you. Just Life lifing. No you.
What would you say?
-------------------------------
Ch: I say that resistance arises, and tension arises, I do feel almost apathetic and dejected about all this.
Of course I do know you answer to this already.
Here is no "I" that resist, its just resistance, But then again if there is resistance there seem to be an "I" that resist right ?
Some wave of sadness do also arises. Heavy feelings , all mixture
Tel me, does old patterns arise in in your awareness as well ?
-------------------------------
Elena:
Emotions arise, but not personal. Mostly as sensations in the body. Like I was in court the other day for very uncomfortable matter, and before when I went to court for the same matter, I felt hurt, angry, dis-empowered, afraid that it will be resolved not in my interest.
This time I felt burning through the body, no weight to the emotions at all, no personal view on the play that was going on in court.
Just play of the existence in this particular way. So be it.
Keep looking. There is a reason why I didn't stop. I don't think you are through. Just trust the flow. You see the words and you read them with your head. You calculate like in chess what I will say. It's not that, Ch. Drop your analytical habit. It does not serve you here. It only keep you from focusing on looking.
I see you are emotional guy, so look at emotions then, especially when they are strong. Sadness, apathy? Look behind. What's there?
This time I felt burning through the body, no weight to the emotions at all, no personal view on the play that was going on in court.
Just play of the existence in this particular way. So be it.
Keep looking. There is a reason why I didn't stop. I don't think you are through. Just trust the flow. You see the words and you read them with your head. You calculate like in chess what I will say. It's not that, Ch. Drop your analytical habit. It does not serve you here. It only keep you from focusing on looking.
I see you are emotional guy, so look at emotions then, especially when they are strong. Sadness, apathy? Look behind. What's there?
And you look, plainly on the reality. See what's real and what's not. It's easy. Because you do not need to try hard to see what's exist, but it's really a mindbend if you try to see what's not. So look at something real - emotion, for example. It's just there. You don't need to do anything hard to feel it, right? Or any physical object - your hand, table. But try to look at "I" in the same manner. And see if it is possible.
-------------------------------
Ch: This is how it is.
Everything real is life, life appears as object in awareness. atoms and molecules are objects in awareness that builds up other physical objects, objects in awareness like flower is life, Thoughts are object in awareness, feelings are object in awareness, Thoughts are pointers that points to object in awareness, Though "flower" points to reality flower, Though "atom" points to reality as object atom, Though "Though" point to reality object as Thought, Though "I/Me/ just points to a thought, The "I" is a though, that is clearly seen, All object in life is real but, its all there is, there is no one else there. Just life, I see everything else but no "I" except as though that address it to it self. The illusion of "I" as something else except the thought is now seen.
That must be it =)
-------------------------------
Elena:
so, do you exist in any shape or form in the reality?
Is there you?
-------------------------------
Ch:
Yes. a thoughts that seams to point to something else, but it don't, It pretends to be, that is the illusion, There is no other self then that =) But I´m not a thought. Thought is a Though, I´m not =) Thought is, I´m not =)
-------------------------------
Elena:
You are not a thought.
Yes. So any you out there?
-------------------------------
Ch: Of course I´m not a thought =) Thought is a Though, I´m nothing of things that exists. There is no "I" as reality. But there is a label as a though, that is calling it self "I" But its not an real "I", is just a thought
-------------------------------
Elena: Confirm from me. Congrats. Good work. I like you have a volition to help others, great. Now yes, celebrating!:)
Ch: This is how it is.
Everything real is life, life appears as object in awareness. atoms and molecules are objects in awareness that builds up other physical objects, objects in awareness like flower is life, Thoughts are object in awareness, feelings are object in awareness, Thoughts are pointers that points to object in awareness, Though "flower" points to reality flower, Though "atom" points to reality as object atom, Though "Though" point to reality object as Thought, Though "I/Me/ just points to a thought, The "I" is a though, that is clearly seen, All object in life is real but, its all there is, there is no one else there. Just life, I see everything else but no "I" except as though that address it to it self. The illusion of "I" as something else except the thought is now seen.
That must be it =)
-------------------------------
Elena:
so, do you exist in any shape or form in the reality?
Is there you?
-------------------------------
Ch:
Yes. a thoughts that seams to point to something else, but it don't, It pretends to be, that is the illusion, There is no other self then that =) But I´m not a thought. Thought is a Though, I´m not =) Thought is, I´m not =)
-------------------------------
Elena:
You are not a thought.
Yes. So any you out there?
-------------------------------
Ch: Of course I´m not a thought =) Thought is a Though, I´m nothing of things that exists. There is no "I" as reality. But there is a label as a though, that is calling it self "I" But its not an real "I", is just a thought
-------------------------------
Elena: Confirm from me. Congrats. Good work. I like you have a volition to help others, great. Now yes, celebrating!:)
.webp)
