Em. July 12 at 7:34am
Hello, I stumbled upon your conversation via the Headless Way Facebook site and was immediately struck by what you were saying. So I spent a large (large!!) part of last night reading all the Ruthless Truth info and your blog. I would really like to work with you to get through that Gate! Are you free to do this work? My request is sincere and I am ready to crack this thing! I've done 10 years shamanism, 15 years motherhood, 40 years 'seeking' and in the last 2 years dropped everything down to the bare bones to get to the truth. I have no spiritual practices and stripped away as much of the un-truth as I can see. I can still smell the 'stink' of wrong-ness though. I hope this makes some sense.
With thanks,
Em.
UK
With thanks,
Em.
UK
Elena July 12 at 11:54am
Hi, Em.! I feel your burning. Perfect. We can do it. Tell me more about the "stink of wrongness".
Elena July 12 at 12:16pm
My "resume", by the way is close to yours. 8 years of Gurgieff Way, 8 years of Vipassana, some Ayahuaska, 19 years of motherhood. I hear you. hehe
Em. July 12 at 1:41pm
Oh Elena ~ thanks for taking this on! I appreciate it. From your blog I gather that this requires straight up no-frills
So. OK. I would like to give you a bit of back-history. I know that it isn't really what this is about, but it might explain the 'stink' thing. As a kid I had the sense that everyone was pretending. And I thought it was me t hat was all wrong. A cynical, pedantic child...Anyway, grew up, got into shamanism, thought I had found all the answers. I thought that the 'stink' was from people not knowing their true roots, the way the cosmos worked, all that. But then one day I got bit. Not sure how. But two things happened. First, I was standing in the classroom (I was a teacher for 20 years) and realized it was all a big, fat lie...all pointless, as if everyone was pretending. I dropped into a hole of nothing and shortly after stopped teaching. I burnt all my bridges and left teaching, left my relationship (I had been into all the deviancies you can think to kind of work out 'the truth') and found that nothing I believed in was true. I dropped 150lbs in weight (yup, was very big before) and just disappeared from my life. I can only describe it as kind of dying for a couple of years. The only thing I could think of was that I wanted to know 'the truth' . When people talk about wanting peace or bliss or whatever as a result of enlightenment I don't get that. I just want to know the truth. You know, I realised that is what I always wanted. I see that now. And I made the rash decision to know that at any cost...the only thing worth doing. No ambition for money, for great achievement. I just want to understand what is going on. Then, at some point, I found Jed McKenna, then Advaita and thought that these people were talking about what I was looking for. I don't buy the idea that there is 'no one truth'. I reckon there is, and I want to find it because it is itching under my skin all the time. It is also losing me friends. I don't speak much because it feels as if each word is weighed under with the shit of playing this game of being human. When friends talk about relationships or the clothes they want or which school they want their kids to go to, I can play along for a short while. After that I can't keep it up. So I spend a lot of my time with my chickens, my beehives, my kids. The 'stink' that I talk about is what I think is the ego, the accumulated scripts that people run and the face they put on. The words come out and it feels like it is coming from unquestioned beliefs. And in case this sounds sanctimonious and judgemental (will accept both those labels) I apply it to me too. My boyfriend tells me he loves me. I don't answer. I want to say 'Who do you love? You love an idea of me'. It is like there are personalities walking around out there but I 'smell' them. Each personality with its own flavour. But it is just that, a personality without a person. Does this make any sense? I am not sure I am able to express this because I haven't tried before. And then I try to work it out via Advaita and I end up with the belief that my mind and body are illusory. Then I try from another direction and end up with the body is real and the mind is real but there is no me. Then I'm in knots again. The only thing I can say that I know for sure that isn't someone else's hand-me-dwon, is that no-one is telling the truth - the play-acting goes on and I can trust my instinct on that. I felt it in the last few years when everything went from me...anything that wasn't 'true' got burned up spiritual practise, profession, relationship, body. But trying to pick up the pieces and make sense...hmmm...
Em. July 12 at 2:54pm
Sorry, thought of one other thing I wanted to add...when I read liberation or enlightenment books/sites I notice that often the core idea resonates with me, but then the 'extras' seem to turn away from the truth. These extras are often 'God' stuff, or 'Love' stuff. As far as I can feel to be true, if there is no 'me', that is the bottom line. No frills, no extras, no promises after. I really am struggling to find the words to describe this. It is as if I can smell the rat, the 'wrongness', in the room but can't see it. Best wishes, Em. ~
Elena July 12 at 3:15pm
Cut out the extras, just focus on penetrating the illusion. Later you will sort all out what serves you or not. Now - 100% focus on looking. Deal?
Em. July 12 at 3:34pm
Happy to cut out the extras. 100% focus - definitely a deal!
Elena July 12 at 3:52pm
I read your story. You are standing right there, Em.. It's a matter of staying focused with looking. Piece of cake. You had a moment of decision, decision for truth at all costs is made. You passed stages where people are not sure yet. You are there. You are at the Gate. Look, look is it you who lives your life? Is it you who stepped to the Gate? Is there a you in all of your story you just told? Where is you in all this? Look!
Em. July 12 at 4:59pm
OK...going to look. I'll let you know how I get on. Just wanted to say, you ask these questions and I want to: read 'spiritual' books, listen to Advaita audio, eat, go online, work, clean, email, tidy up...*anything* except do this. And that is how I have been. I think sometimes the seeking wants to keep seeking just to keep busy. Why would I want to avoid the thing I want most? OK...I will leave that for now. Right now I am going to commit to looking at each of those things you ask, right now. Thank you Elena ~ Best wishes, Em.
Elena July 12 at 5:23pm
Stop all this, Em., just drop for a short time we are together. Later you can go ahead and do whatever. But now - only honest looking, no reading. Enough.
Why would you want to avoid?
You don't want to avoid. There is no you. Just habit. Look what is habit. What it is? Is it you?
Why would you want to avoid?
You don't want to avoid. There is no you. Just habit. Look what is habit. What it is? Is it you?
Em. July 12 at 6:16pm
OK...very tired now, but this is where I am at with it so far with the questions you asked. I am a bit ashamed of these answers because they seem so 'basic' and not what are the 'correct' answers. Urgh.
Elena July 12 at 6:23pm
there is no correct answers. what's real is only looking honestly. Ashamed is great. Look at the feeling. IS there you who is ashamed? Look closer. Look behind the feeling. What is there?
Em. July 12 at 6:25pm
Who lives my life? My life is lived by memories, my brain, my emotions, physical commands, old routines (programming, programmes), fear, survival (mental and physical planning), desire (chemical, physical, emotional gratification), instincts. Lots of fear thoughts. In the story of my life I gave you, 'me' is a series of events that make more story. So, mostly 'my life' consists of thoughts and physical impulses - body and mind. But I want there to be a 'me' in there! Something special and different...urgh. I didn't know that. OK...the filter that makes it feel like a 'me' is just a collection of experiences and conditioning - a unique cluster but not an entity in its own right, not an 'Em.'.
Em. July 12 at 6:28pm
You asked about 'habit'. No, the habit is not me. It is another cluster of reactions based on previous experience. A mix of biological and psychological phenomenon. Shit! Pavlov's dog...
Elena July 12 at 6:36pm
Who lives my life? My life is lived by memories, my brain,
brain just a a physical organ. yes it's real. You - nah, imaginary structure. does not exist.
my emotions,
emotions arise/pass - Existence patterning. Emotions part of the reality. they are. not yours. you are not part of the reality. there is no you.
physical commands,
experiences, physical actions just same patterning of the existence. there is no owner
old routines (programming, programmes), fear, survival (mental and physical planning), desire (chemical, physical, emotional gratification), instincts. Lots of fear thoughts.
All this shit is exist. the only what's not is you.
In the story of my life I gave you, 'me' is a series of events that make more story. So, mostly 'my life' consists of thoughts and physical impulses - body and mind.
yes, great observation.
But I want there to be a 'me' in there!
No, you just want to keep the uniqueness. Listen. uniqueness does not go away, its a flavor of existence living life with this particular system. if you want "me" to survive, it's futile goal, because it was never there in the first place.
Something special and different...urgh
this is just a feeling. FEELiNG - legit.
I didn't know that. OK...the filter that makes it feel like a 'me' is just a collection of experiences and conditioning - a unique cluster but not an entity in its own right, not an 'Em.'.
yep, and not a cluster - it's more like patterning, flow
Look, the way where you hang on is that you think that you will loose something. Look if that the case.
brain just a a physical organ. yes it's real. You - nah, imaginary structure. does not exist.
my emotions,
emotions arise/pass - Existence patterning. Emotions part of the reality. they are. not yours. you are not part of the reality. there is no you.
physical commands,
experiences, physical actions just same patterning of the existence. there is no owner
old routines (programming, programmes), fear, survival (mental and physical planning), desire (chemical, physical, emotional gratification), instincts. Lots of fear thoughts.
All this shit is exist. the only what's not is you.
In the story of my life I gave you, 'me' is a series of events that make more story. So, mostly 'my life' consists of thoughts and physical impulses - body and mind.
yes, great observation.
But I want there to be a 'me' in there!
No, you just want to keep the uniqueness. Listen. uniqueness does not go away, its a flavor of existence living life with this particular system. if you want "me" to survive, it's futile goal, because it was never there in the first place.
Something special and different...urgh
this is just a feeling. FEELiNG - legit.
I didn't know that. OK...the filter that makes it feel like a 'me' is just a collection of experiences and conditioning - a unique cluster but not an entity in its own right, not an 'Em.'.
yep, and not a cluster - it's more like patterning, flow
Look, the way where you hang on is that you think that you will loose something. Look if that the case.
"Shit! Pavlov's dog..".
Elena: hehe
Elena: hehe
Em. July 12 at 6:49pm
Ahhhh. There's a lot here...I can feel it loosening, unraveling. I want to stay with this but I need to sleep now (it is late here). Thank you so much. I am not going to let this go. OK. So, this is what I will commit to: no books, no 'busy', no distractions. Focus. I'm going to print this off and get back to it tomorrow morning, feel for the answers and I have some questions about what you just said too, if that is ok with you? ~ !thank you!~
Elena July 12 at 6:51pm
If you wake up in the middle of the night to pee, see if the "I' will wake up too or will be just peeeing. Also when you wake up in the morning look up like a baby before the "i' thought is there.
Good night.
Good night.
Em. July 12 at 6:52pm
Good night Elena. Will check in with the peeing thing :-)
Em. July 13 at 6:30am
Hello Elena, I've had a sleep but am still tired. This thing is chasing me to be done with it I think. So I looked over the last few questions again this morning and here is my looong response. Some of it is just 'thinking aloud' but I kept it all in in case there was anything I wasn't seeing. And some of it doesn't make logical sense. If you read through you will see some of it was a working out process. OK, so you asked 'Is there a you who is ashamed? Look closer. Look behind the feeling'. Here is what came back: I am not intellectual or clever enough. Old structure of self-image. The personality/self is highly attuned to fitting in, being a chameleon. I am afraid I will expose the workings of the 'machine' and show that they are slow and ugly. Need to impress authority figures etc etc...[more psychological stuff and accumulated story. I won't write it all here as it is pretty much more of the same]. I look at it and it seems to be all programming and reflexes and personality patterns. And it is endless, by which I mean, the personality structure grows more branches wherever I cut it off. Beliefs accumulating and making more behaviours/feelings. It is all shit. Just leave it alone. Does it belong to 'me' - an Em. entity? Belongs to brain or a physical/mental stimulus system. Pavlov's Dog again...less funny this time. A 'cloud' of responses arise and then pass on. Leave them alone. Don't get dragged along with them. OK...tricky...*What* is not to get dragged along with them??? An awareness of them? So there is not a 'me' but an awareness? When I look there is no actual Em., there is a unique physical appearance and a unique psychology (pattern, programmes, reflexes, conditioning) and a unique biology but not an actual 'Em.'. Don't all those unique-nesses make a singularity? Enough to say there is an Em.-thing unlike any other (like a snowflake)? But is there a unique *consciousness* that is 'me'? A unique body-mind constellation but....but....but...behind the shame is just more mind, endlessly spinning on, endlessly. But what watches all this and knows? Something is able to identify this. *Who* is Elena asking to look? *Who* can observe this? Life = body+mind+events? Ahhhhh, something opening up. There is a unique form of existence BUT NO Em. AT THE CONTROLS. A snowflake, a blade of grass are unique but they are not growing themselves. Something here about them being interconnected though...in the grid of life...Yes, feelings are part of the existence but what watches them come and go? Yes, also to your comments about 'flow'...it is all changing - the body-mind 'Em.' thing and the 'grid'/life/patterning, all changing. You asked another question that I will get back to. You said 'where you hang on is that you think you will loose something. Look if that is the case'. I am going to get back to you on that. I feel like I am unraveling something but haven't got a grip on it. ~Thank you Elena~ :-)
Em. July 13 at 8:12am
OK. Bit more. I hope this isn't too much. If you need a different pace tell me ! So, you asked about "'where you hang on is that you think you will loose something. Look if that is the case". I think the fear is that the personality will de-stabilise without an 'Em.'. I will end up mad. I will be outside society, *alone* in all senses. Not special (urgh), no chasing grand dreams, no hope for more/bigger/better, the abyss/void. OK, so I ask myself, is this true? Look. There's nothing fucking in there...I am empty...*shouting* Want to cry and vomit. Mix of sad and disgust. Big lie. It's all a pile of leaves...the wind blows and there is nothing there!!!I don't know where to take this. My mind is searching for something to hold onto that *is* there...Trying to remember all the books and theories and ideas it has had from others. I could give you plenty from those but this is 100% focus and looking for me...don't want anyone else's answers...Don't know where to turn here. I am just going to sit with being empty, or rather, full of stuff that is all leaves and dust. Shit. Feels like my head and body is floating off.
Em. July 13 at 8:13am
Not allowing myself any other 'story' or belief to fill this space right now...Feel vast, light....
Elena July 13 at 2:35pm
Good.
If there any you in any shape or form
in the reality?
If there any you in any shape or form
in the reality?
Elena July 13 at 5:29pm
Is there a 'soul', a special 'me', directing my life? Is there an Em. directing operations? I want there to be something in there...I want the divine spark to be there. There is fighting. I want to understand what there is that grew me, that animates everything. If there is no me there must be something.
there is Life, Existence patterning in all these various ways. It always was. Nothing to loose. Only illusion of you structure.
I want to choose that way - the Advaita way (I am Oneness) or any way that leaves me something in exchange... to be special, or I get to be God...Elena, all this stuff has to come out.
You wold not disappear. You never was in the first place. Existence existing and always was and always will. It's only now and all exist. The only what not - is you, the label, the imaginary ownership
I am finding it all here. I didn't know it was here. This bit of looking is messing with my head!
good
Like it is pulling in two directions.
it will resolve
In the reality there is a body, there is a mind. I cannot find an 'Em.' separate from that that runs the show.
of cause you can't find, it never was. Was just belief, thought. "I" thought that attaches itself to anything in the reality
and claims
Look that nothing requires this "I" that separates reality into compartments "I" and not "I". Mine and not mine. No ownership in the existence, it's imaginary.
You won't loose anything. There is no you, Never was.
Look. It's simple. Truth is simple. Illusion is complicated.
there is Life, Existence patterning in all these various ways. It always was. Nothing to loose. Only illusion of you structure.
I want to choose that way - the Advaita way (I am Oneness) or any way that leaves me something in exchange... to be special, or I get to be God...Elena, all this stuff has to come out.
You wold not disappear. You never was in the first place. Existence existing and always was and always will. It's only now and all exist. The only what not - is you, the label, the imaginary ownership
I am finding it all here. I didn't know it was here. This bit of looking is messing with my head!
good
Like it is pulling in two directions.
it will resolve
In the reality there is a body, there is a mind. I cannot find an 'Em.' separate from that that runs the show.
of cause you can't find, it never was. Was just belief, thought. "I" thought that attaches itself to anything in the reality
and claims
Look that nothing requires this "I" that separates reality into compartments "I" and not "I". Mine and not mine. No ownership in the existence, it's imaginary.
You won't loose anything. There is no you, Never was.
Look. It's simple. Truth is simple. Illusion is complicated.
Em. July 14 at 7:58am
Hi Elena,
Weeell, I guess I have reached my sticky bit...I am going to give you the place I have got to but I warn you, I suspect 90% of it is shit. I've put it here so maybe you can help me to find where I have blind spots. It was a thinking process so some of it is working it out on paper. Apologies for the length of it. Here goes:
I can see the block, a lot of partly-digested beliefs and many residues of magic and magical thinking. Wanting there to be 'something else'. Lots of ways of the old self keeping itself intact. Stop. Just look and see what is 100% true. Discard what is not. Brain? Computer for keeping the system alive. Thoughts? Random functions of brain system and physical feedback system and stored data. Do I have a soul? What I am searching for, the 'me' essence...I look and find 'mind', but that is a dead-end. The resistance is wanting there to be something else. I can give up 'me' idea if there is something else - Life/One-ness/God so that this avoids the emptiness. It is just fear. Something to refer to, a path to follow. All shit. Belief wants a belief!! Been here before. Going round in circles. No belief is true. Ciaran is wrong...there isn't even a battle. Just patterns of existence - no meaning - just life - just this, now. NO BELIEF
Weeell, I guess I have reached my sticky bit...I am going to give you the place I have got to but I warn you, I suspect 90% of it is shit. I've put it here so maybe you can help me to find where I have blind spots. It was a thinking process so some of it is working it out on paper. Apologies for the length of it. Here goes:
I can see the block, a lot of partly-digested beliefs and many residues of magic and magical thinking. Wanting there to be 'something else'. Lots of ways of the old self keeping itself intact. Stop. Just look and see what is 100% true. Discard what is not. Brain? Computer for keeping the system alive. Thoughts? Random functions of brain system and physical feedback system and stored data. Do I have a soul? What I am searching for, the 'me' essence...I look and find 'mind', but that is a dead-end. The resistance is wanting there to be something else. I can give up 'me' idea if there is something else - Life/One-ness/God so that this avoids the emptiness. It is just fear. Something to refer to, a path to follow. All shit. Belief wants a belief!! Been here before. Going round in circles. No belief is true. Ciaran is wrong...there isn't even a battle. Just patterns of existence - no meaning - just life - just this, now. NO BELIEF
Em. July 14 at 8:08am
just this, life. Each pattern is unique but it is not self-animated (no self!), there is a flow of life into life into life into life - can't be self-contained (no self!). No owner. A radical singularity with no owner - what a contradiction. Live and die - no control over that. 'Em.' is unique existence but there is no 'I' with a control of that existence. I didn't bring myself into existence. But the fear of letting go of 'I' is of letting go of control, but will die anyway. "Die before you die". Let the 'I' die. Self doesn't want to die. Big thing asked - kill your self off. Never existed anyway. But the idea of it existing creates the illusion of control. Krishnamurti says his big secret was that he didn't mind what happened. I am being lived. There is no 'me' doing the living. Ready to die? Cut your head off! 'I' want to Survive at all costs. Very, very good at surviving. Permanently controlling, vigilant, responsible. OK...getting quieter after all this shit. Think it is the 'I' fighting itself! Just look...focus...Think maybe I have to clear all this stuff out of the way. I write it and see it for what it is. Clear seeing of it, just still attached to it. Hope that makes sense. Good at seeing the shit, just less good at letting go. Maybe not very brave...Focus. "It is all just life. Happening" Everything else is a story. Yes. Yes. I *know* this.
Em. ~
Em. ~
Elena July 14 at 11:16am
I see you are good at fighting. Good in exposing the shit. What about seeing that your vast knowledge how it should be is playing you hard. It's so simple, it's a joke. And one will be fighting with imaginary "I" like it's battle, yea, listen more to Jed..He is a jerk who encrusted his particular unfolding on millions, now they all think they fucking have to stand and fight. Fight fucking what?? There is nothing to fight. NOTHING. Seriously. Nothing to loose, nothing to fight. it's all there already, it always was - everything - thought, feelings, experiences, magic, everything is real. Only "I" is not. only little fucking thought "I" in the head. Look for this thought. It's only thought. Though - yes, real. You - not.
Elena July 14 at 11:36am
No reading, remember?! No FB reading. Feed the chickens. Look at the chickens. Is there any "self" in the chicken? The brain is less developed, different system, so what? Chi ken has no soul and you should? Yes, thats what 'YOU" want. How in the world you can have a soul if there is no you exist in the first place??!!
What is 'chicken" thought pointer? It points to ACTIVITY "chicken" in the reality - solid body, brain, various impulses. Anything personal about this chicken? Unique body/brain activity, yes. Anything else personal - no. What thought "I" points to? Look what it points to.
What is 'chicken" thought pointer? It points to ACTIVITY "chicken" in the reality - solid body, brain, various impulses. Anything personal about this chicken? Unique body/brain activity, yes. Anything else personal - no. What thought "I" points to? Look what it points to.
Em. July 14 at 6:49pm
Hello Elena,
Ok, not even Facebook reading.... Sorry if I broke the agreement, not an intentional breach of integrity - just being slack and the 'vast knowlege' (ha ha!) is not matched by the same degree of focus... Yes, agree about Jed McKenna. That one got filtered through some macho thing. Chickens eh. Yes, I can get that one. An affinity for animals. So, is there any 'self' in the chicken. No, only body, brain and instinct to survive, also there is 'life' in the chicken. Does the chicken have a soul? Not that I can know. It is just a belief. It has an individuality (body, colouring, genetics, behaviour etc). But does it have a *separate self-controlling life-force that belongs just to it* ? NO. It doesn't believe that it controls its life-force, its 'being-ness' and that it can direct its life-force (existence, Life, whatever you want to call it). It doesn't hold the thought that it is 'Hen X' or that it needs to seek enlightenment from what it already is. It doesn't believe it is ugly or beautiful or needs to have something better than it has (other than for physical survival). Further up the the animal brain-size scale the bigger brains 'want' more but it is actually still the same - no belief in a separate, self-controlled, life force ('I') that it owns and belongs soley to it and is controlled by it. Ok, OK....this is coming in closer. This makes a strange sense. I cannot be or have a 'piece' of Life, separate and controlled by 'me', a belief in my own private piece of Life. It cannot be 'my' life. I cannot break off a piece that is just for me that I direct and control and operate separate from the whole. It is just a misguided belief. An error in seeing....I can stay with this. This is different. 'I' points to this belief. A misguided belief in a little broken off piece of Life that is a special 'me' that belongs to me and I can direct and control...not possible. Hmmmm....this is opening something. I am going to follow this. See where it goes.
Yes, too. I see what you say about fighting. I have an image of a little man boxing himself. Mind fighting mind. Just drop it then? You said nothing to fight and nothing to lose. OK. I will just put it down.
Chickens eh..! You knew where to get me ha!
Em. ~
Ok, not even Facebook reading.... Sorry if I broke the agreement, not an intentional breach of integrity - just being slack and the 'vast knowlege' (ha ha!) is not matched by the same degree of focus... Yes, agree about Jed McKenna. That one got filtered through some macho thing. Chickens eh. Yes, I can get that one. An affinity for animals. So, is there any 'self' in the chicken. No, only body, brain and instinct to survive, also there is 'life' in the chicken. Does the chicken have a soul? Not that I can know. It is just a belief. It has an individuality (body, colouring, genetics, behaviour etc). But does it have a *separate self-controlling life-force that belongs just to it* ? NO. It doesn't believe that it controls its life-force, its 'being-ness' and that it can direct its life-force (existence, Life, whatever you want to call it). It doesn't hold the thought that it is 'Hen X' or that it needs to seek enlightenment from what it already is. It doesn't believe it is ugly or beautiful or needs to have something better than it has (other than for physical survival). Further up the the animal brain-size scale the bigger brains 'want' more but it is actually still the same - no belief in a separate, self-controlled, life force ('I') that it owns and belongs soley to it and is controlled by it. Ok, OK....this is coming in closer. This makes a strange sense. I cannot be or have a 'piece' of Life, separate and controlled by 'me', a belief in my own private piece of Life. It cannot be 'my' life. I cannot break off a piece that is just for me that I direct and control and operate separate from the whole. It is just a misguided belief. An error in seeing....I can stay with this. This is different. 'I' points to this belief. A misguided belief in a little broken off piece of Life that is a special 'me' that belongs to me and I can direct and control...not possible. Hmmmm....this is opening something. I am going to follow this. See where it goes.
Yes, too. I see what you say about fighting. I have an image of a little man boxing himself. Mind fighting mind. Just drop it then? You said nothing to fight and nothing to lose. OK. I will just put it down.
Chickens eh..! You knew where to get me ha!
Em. ~
Elena July 14 at 9:54pm
Chickens eh. Yes, I can get that one.
No you can't. there is no you.
This makes a strange sense. I cannot be or have a 'piece' of Life, separate and controlled by 'me', a belief in my own private piece of Life. It cannot be 'my' life. I cannot break off a piece that is just for me that I direct and control and operate separate from the whole. It is just a misguided belief. An error in seeing...
yes
I can stay with this.
You can not stay or not stay with this. There is no you.
This is different. 'I' points to this belief. A misguided belief in a little broken off piece of Life that is a special 'me' that belongs to me and I can direct and control...not possible. Hmmmm....this is opening something.
yes
I am going to follow this.
Oh, yes? You?
Mind fighting mind. Just drop it then? You said nothing to fight and nothing to lose. OK. I will just put it down.
Drop the belief that it's hard and need to be fighted. Seriously, Look more on chickens. Anything really hard for them? Like do they have to fight to exist? You don't need to fight too. Who fights is 'self' to be taken as real.
Like batman really need to fight to be taken as real. Because it does not exist. Not part of the reality. Chicken does not have to fight to be part of the reality - it is. Body, thoughts, feelings - all here. Part of the reality. Do you need to fight to observe what's real?
If I give you a cup in your hands and you hold it. It's exist, right? So what do you need to do to cup stop be existing? You need to brake it, and it's stop existing as a cup, right?
If I extend my hands to you and say - I have this watermelon in my hands (I just imagine it, and you just imagine it, ok?) So I am giving you this watermelon - take it. You take imaginary watermelon and "hold it" - go ahead - do it - hold imaginary watermelon - huge - in between your hands. Now I ask you what you should do to get rid of this watermelon in your hands?
Elena July 15 at 3:56am
No you can't. there is no you.
This makes a strange sense. I cannot be or have a 'piece' of Life, separate and controlled by 'me', a belief in my own private piece of Life. It cannot be 'my' life. I cannot break off a piece that is just for me that I direct and control and operate separate from the whole. It is just a misguided belief. An error in seeing...
yes
I can stay with this.
You can not stay or not stay with this. There is no you.
This is different. 'I' points to this belief. A misguided belief in a little broken off piece of Life that is a special 'me' that belongs to me and I can direct and control...not possible. Hmmmm....this is opening something.
yes
I am going to follow this.
Oh, yes? You?
Mind fighting mind. Just drop it then? You said nothing to fight and nothing to lose. OK. I will just put it down.
Drop the belief that it's hard and need to be fighted. Seriously, Look more on chickens. Anything really hard for them? Like do they have to fight to exist? You don't need to fight too. Who fights is 'self' to be taken as real.
Like batman really need to fight to be taken as real. Because it does not exist. Not part of the reality. Chicken does not have to fight to be part of the reality - it is. Body, thoughts, feelings - all here. Part of the reality. Do you need to fight to observe what's real?
If I give you a cup in your hands and you hold it. It's exist, right? So what do you need to do to cup stop be existing? You need to brake it, and it's stop existing as a cup, right?
If I extend my hands to you and say - I have this watermelon in my hands (I just imagine it, and you just imagine it, ok?) So I am giving you this watermelon - take it. You take imaginary watermelon and "hold it" - go ahead - do it - hold imaginary watermelon - huge - in between your hands. Now I ask you what you should do to get rid of this watermelon in your hands?
Elena July 15 at 3:56am
So what's up with watermelon? You still holding imaginary watermelon in your hands? How to get rid of imaginary watermelon in your hands?
How to get rid of imaginary self in your head?
Tell me.
How to get rid of imaginary self in your head?
Tell me.
Em. July 15 at 7:38am
Hello Elena,
Really, I have not so many words now. I made a lot of noise before! Not sure how to put this. Don't know quite how it got there but I was walking out of the bathroom and it hit me the 'lie' of there being an Em....Hmmm, really can't find the words for it. Just a certainty that it could be an idea that I had swallowed and never questioned, and even the intellectual understanding of it being a lie was not the same as the impact of *seeing* it for myself. I'll give you some of the back-story that went with this, but it is all words really.
You were right about making a decision. It had been made. It is important I think because it is like being open to it. So all the stuff about wanting 'me' to exist, all the fighting, it is just the self talking. Just thoughts and concepts, they are not important. They are happening but not important...just 'noise' and chatter, side-tracks. I am glad you left alone my questions like 'Is there a singularity'? It is just noise, side-tracks. Concepts are endless.
The thoughts circled back to: there is a body, there is a mind, a unique one but it doesn't possess its own private, personal, separate piece of life. No Em. at the controls. I am not breathing myself, not growing cells, not digesting food, emptying bladder, not living/dying my atoms...I am not 'living' myself. There is just 'living' . Then the words stopped! Without the 'ghost in the machine' what I am left with is an existence, just the same as the chickens...being lived (even that is too many words). The thoughts and feelings (and the fighting!) etc are all the human 'crust' (can't find a word). Just Life left. It is rather quiet... Em. x
Really, I have not so many words now. I made a lot of noise before! Not sure how to put this. Don't know quite how it got there but I was walking out of the bathroom and it hit me the 'lie' of there being an Em....Hmmm, really can't find the words for it. Just a certainty that it could be an idea that I had swallowed and never questioned, and even the intellectual understanding of it being a lie was not the same as the impact of *seeing* it for myself. I'll give you some of the back-story that went with this, but it is all words really.
You were right about making a decision. It had been made. It is important I think because it is like being open to it. So all the stuff about wanting 'me' to exist, all the fighting, it is just the self talking. Just thoughts and concepts, they are not important. They are happening but not important...just 'noise' and chatter, side-tracks. I am glad you left alone my questions like 'Is there a singularity'? It is just noise, side-tracks. Concepts are endless.
The thoughts circled back to: there is a body, there is a mind, a unique one but it doesn't possess its own private, personal, separate piece of life. No Em. at the controls. I am not breathing myself, not growing cells, not digesting food, emptying bladder, not living/dying my atoms...I am not 'living' myself. There is just 'living' . Then the words stopped! Without the 'ghost in the machine' what I am left with is an existence, just the same as the chickens...being lived (even that is too many words). The thoughts and feelings (and the fighting!) etc are all the human 'crust' (can't find a word). Just Life left. It is rather quiet... Em. x
Em. July 15 at 8:08am
Ok...lol...few more words. I actually *saw* that there was no 'I', that it was just something implanted. But I am not sure if it is complete. Was that it? lolol? It is so simple just to look!
Em. July 15 at 8:59am
ohhhh...I get it. All the big thoughts I had about enlightenment etc, they were getting in the way. All the fancy reading I had done just got sludged up and slowed down the simple fact of seeing! All that knowledge stuff can (or not) find its place *after* seeing. Yes. Yes, yes, hey, Elena, this is kind of working itself out! Everything seems so 'heavy' with an 'I'. Without it is free...shit....it feels...easier.... laughing.......
Em. July 15 at 10:46am
...and the self/I is 'sticky'...it accumulates stories and anything it can attach to itself? Not sure if this is seeing it but it feels different...bit crazy right now as I can't sit very still... Have I fallen in an elephant trap here?
Elena July 15 at 12:11pm
Is there you in the reality in any shape or form?
Em. July 15 at 12:49pm
It seems like there is an 'Em.' existence but without the attachments. I am not sure if this is complete. It feels like an Em. without an 'I'. Just a stripped-bare existence. Lighter. Elena, I don't want to be half-cooked. It is just it feels very different. ok...maybe a clearer thing to say is that where I am seeing *from* is different and feels like it will never be the same again.
Elena July 15 at 2:47pm
No, you are not seeing from - there is no you. no you. this is not a joke. this is true.
so lighter Em. or no Em..
Find which one.
Em. July 15 at 3:35pm
Hello Elena, OK...keep going...keep looking. I have stopped work for 3 days up till now and have been on nothing but this. Even my house is looking like a bomb hit it to get at this, but I have kids etc around all weekend. I am going to keep looking and will post here. I don't know where more to look but you have given me enough here to 'see'. About the watermelon. 'What do I do to get rid of the imaginary watermelon'? Nothing. It doesn't exist. Thank you, Em. ~
Elena July 15 at 3:50pm
You go and take care of your life and look while you are in life. Life is all there is. No need to take yourself out from it. There is nowhere to run from truth. truth is all it is. SO let continue while you cleaning your house and do whatever you need to do. BUT see if for all that you is required - you - structure Em.. I said it's not hard, when you see it you will not stop laughing, seriously.
All - feelings, sensations, thoughts are real, yes. Body, movements, everything, everything real, except batman, that watermelon I gave you and "I". What you need to do to get rid of it? Stop believing in it. It's just a belief. A thought. Break up this fucking "I" and see its just a though. Or prove me wrong.
All - feelings, sensations, thoughts are real, yes. Body, movements, everything, everything real, except batman, that watermelon I gave you and "I". What you need to do to get rid of it? Stop believing in it. It's just a belief. A thought. Break up this fucking "I" and see its just a though. Or prove me wrong.
Em. July 15 at 4:16pm
Hi Elena. This may sound odd, but I really do know what I need to see, if that makes sense. Everything you say I understand. It is as if know it but can't bring it in. I know everything you say is true. I understand it. I actually see it in one way. I am not lazy, or stupid or weak. I can taste it and touch it but not bring it in. But I am not going to let this go. I'll be in touch! And one day I *will* be laughing...Thanks for your time Elena. Em. ~
Elena July 15 at 4:24pm
No, not "one day" Very soon. You are at the gate. do not leave. You can go ahead and take care of staff, but write to me 1 a day. Deal?
There is a reason why you don't see or don't know what actually you need to do. There is a reason - that veil that keeps the mind active and hold on to this self. We will break this. No worries. Just stay with me once a day. It's not linear, you will never figure out this . Never. You need to release that you ever figure this out. This is not possible to figure this out. THis is "you' who is trying to figure out. Because there is no you in reality, this all become like a huge riddle in the head. SO just stay with me once a day, whatever it takes. I will not leave. Do not leave.
There is a reason why you don't see or don't know what actually you need to do. There is a reason - that veil that keeps the mind active and hold on to this self. We will break this. No worries. Just stay with me once a day. It's not linear, you will never figure out this . Never. You need to release that you ever figure this out. This is not possible to figure this out. THis is "you' who is trying to figure out. Because there is no you in reality, this all become like a huge riddle in the head. SO just stay with me once a day, whatever it takes. I will not leave. Do not leave.
Em. July 15 at 4:42pm
OK...no, no chance of me leaving. I wouldn't. I will be in touch once a day. I am away from Monday till Sunday without a computer though. Thank you Elena. I appreciate your tenacity! Em. ~
Em. July 15 at 7:02pm
focusing in deep quiet...with everyone here ironically...Elena I think this is like a baby being born! I'm not sure. Sitting with it and what I see is that there is the 'Em.-thing' and Life but no 'I' in between. the I is a fiction that has hitched a ride. It all carries on without the 'I' perfectly well. The 'I' thought is just like a parasite that is attached. I can taste this Elena. It is not there yet but feels so close...
Em. July 16 at 5:37am
So, sat with this. It is so f*** frustrating. I see it. Life carries on living me whether I get this or not. I see the 'I' thought parasite but the mind can't let it go. Yes, you are right about the veil. Some kind of protection. I just keep wearing away at it. The watermelon. Yes, I see it but mind is trying to find the concept to erase and can find no concept, so can't erase it! Bloody, f*** circles! Easier to look at hen with no independent controller. I look and look. I 'see' it but not the way I need to. Once, a few years ago, I was thinking about 'Be still and know that I am God' [ not the Christian god]. And for a while I completely let go and saw that only life was running the show, there was no 'I'. What the f*** is this about? I can see it, understand it, taste it but the mind won't let go. Sorry to vent here...
Elena July 16 at 2:31pm
Do not wait for anything special. That moment of letting go and seeing only the life running the show was a state, a transient state, it showed you the truth. Now we are here to make mind to realize it. Baby in a crib has an "I"? What baby see/feel? Does baby feel separate from the flow? Did you feel separate from the flow at that moment? You saw it - no separation. Mind creates this separation to operate in the world. To see that "I" does not exist nothing more then to realize that life is running the show. Anything would change viscerally? Not necessarily. Life was before you saw, same life after. No angels will come down. Nope, same body, same feelings, same shit will remain. Like when you actually understand that santa does not exist, did anything changed? Maybe sad feeling came and pass. But the point is that after that you never took santa as a face value, you relaxed and went with the "santa show" for years to come, you never had that "seeking for santa's presents under the tree" uneasy feeling again:"What if am not good enough and he won't bring me presents this year?". Because there was knowledge of truth. Same here. Look more on "I" thought how it comes and grabs everything that happening.
Em. July 16 at 4:25pm
OK Elena, that is really clear and I will take some time with it. Actually, some time out and about today showed me, interestingly, that the clarity from understanding even as much as the last few days have revealed has stopped the seeking and hunting for the answer. It is clear to me, even if the separation still exists. There is nothing more to do really except follow your suggestions. No more books to read, no more teachers to listen to. I feel a resolution of years and years of seeking. The reality of this is clear and that, for now, is good. The 'I' feels as if it is fading.
Elena July 16 at 5:17pm
Look at the "I" thought. That's all is needed. Look behind the "I" thought. What's there?
Em. July 17 at 1:35pm
Hello Elena,
I tried some gentle speculation. What if I accept that there may have been a monumental lie given to me from birth that there was an 'I' and this was totally accepted and reinforced by all around me. What would it mean if there were no me/I? What if it was all a lie? The difference with looking this time was that I relaxed and allowed the mind to play with it rather than trying to force it to accept. I felt a strange spacey-ness, then a spaciousness open, an expanding into everything. It seemed that the 'I' was something that wanted to grab everything, make everything belong to it, attach to everything. and then spin stories. What was left? An existence that was everything and the I-entity (of thoughts, like a parasite). This is how I sat for an hour or so, wondering what was happening.
I tried some gentle speculation. What if I accept that there may have been a monumental lie given to me from birth that there was an 'I' and this was totally accepted and reinforced by all around me. What would it mean if there were no me/I? What if it was all a lie? The difference with looking this time was that I relaxed and allowed the mind to play with it rather than trying to force it to accept. I felt a strange spacey-ness, then a spaciousness open, an expanding into everything. It seemed that the 'I' was something that wanted to grab everything, make everything belong to it, attach to everything. and then spin stories. What was left? An existence that was everything and the I-entity (of thoughts, like a parasite). This is how I sat for an hour or so, wondering what was happening.
Elena July 18 at 12:13am
Yes, get back to looking.
There is no you.
Is it true?
There is no you.
Is it true?
Em. July 18 at 3:22am
Hi Elena. No, there is no me. Behind the 'I' is just a great emptiness. ..
Elena July 18 at 4:45am
is there you that living life?
What drives life?
What drives life?
Em. July 18 at 1:02pm
Hi Elena,
Ok, plain looking onto reality. Is there a you that is living life? No, not a 'me' living life. There is a life living itself, a physical existence. Nothing 'underneath' it, no 'controller' I. What drives life? I don't know. It just arises, patterns within patterns.
Ok, plain looking onto reality. Is there a you that is living life? No, not a 'me' living life. There is a life living itself, a physical existence. Nothing 'underneath' it, no 'controller' I. What drives life? I don't know. It just arises, patterns within patterns.
Elena July 18 at 1:33pm
You can now release looking for something that you saw does not exist. You can just go ahead and live. Simply. You know, chop wood, carry water? Yep, do that. Can you do that?
Em. July 18 at 1:53pm
Yes! I didn't realize it was so practical and simple. It makes me laugh! Driving back there was just brain body driving - no 'me' there. How on earth would a 'me' drive a car? Funny. An imaginary 'I' at the steering wheel. Just read something about 'peeing'...ha ha...no 'self' to do the peeing. Ahhhh....
Elena July 18 at 1:56pm
hahaha! Great! Have a great trip! Much love.
Em. July 18 at 2:11pm
Thanks Elena ~ And for the patience..!Love, Em. ~
Elena July 18 at 2:16pm
Em., I will clean up all the personal info, names and all the unnecessary personal details and post in my blog. For others to benefit. If there are others, so to speak:) Good work. Strong, determent. I wish I can hug you!
And it's not fancy at all. It's so simple. So the root was seeing. Now all remaining shit will start to shed as unnecessary from the system. Life based on inspiration and without fear is the best life human can live. Enjoy the unfolding!
And it's not fancy at all. It's so simple. So the root was seeing. Now all remaining shit will start to shed as unnecessary from the system. Life based on inspiration and without fear is the best life human can live. Enjoy the unfolding!
Em. July 18 at 2:59pm
Yes, do use it, if it might help. The urgency to show others makes sense now. Thank you soooo much! Em. ~
.webp)
